the Stranglers: Classicinblack or Dudinblack

let us know how the show was, they're coming to toronto soon and i'm thinking of going but .... no hugh? no jet?.....

My review, for what it's worth:

Okay, gotta say ... in advance of this gig, I was having my doubts. But in the end, I'm quite glad I went.

For a start, the venue: Highline Ballroom is a relative newcomer to NYC, and it feels a bit slick and antiseptic. This is the first time there's ever been a band I've given a fuck about playing at this venue. Most of the time it seems to play host to corporate events, acid jazz parties and cover bands. Also, the floor is ringed by exclusive cushioned booths. Tear those fucking things out and let people move around, I say. Still, I suppose, if you're normally hosting bullshit karaoke events, I suppose that doesn't matter. I will say this: the bars are easy to access.

Opening act: Ersatz honky-tonkster with cloying lap pedal-steel player name Luba Dvorzak. Honestly, I cannot remember the last time I witnessed an opening act who was so poorly matched with the headliner. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but his strenuously earnest Dwight Yoakam-meets-Bruce-Springsteen posturing really grated after a while. Kept hoping someone was going to throw something at him. Astonishingly, no one did.

The crowd: A odd mix, honestly. Lots of portly, "dodgy prostate punks" with silver in their hair (like, er, me), lots of folks who clearly only came to hear "Grip," "No More Heroes" and/or "Always the Sun" (and who stood staring blankly when the band ripped into "Nuclear Device" or "Straighten Out" etc.). Not many young'uns, which is fine with me.

For a while, i was stood behind a woman who insisted on taking pictures with her phone literally every other minute. Conversely, I took three (3) photos of the performance...and even felt that was excessive. Whatever happened to simply enjoying the moment instead of feverishly trying to document the moment?

The show: For all the talk of the band phoning it in in recent years, I can't honestly say. They were certainly in very high spirits on the comparatively cramped stage. Some fresh-faced young man who looked from my vantage point like Conan O'Brien sat in for the understandably absent but still sorely missed Jet "Fucking" Black. Baz on vocals/guitar is actually a funny, charming, chatty motherfucker (taking an audience member jokingly to task for yelling "you suck" and trying out his best "Noo Yawk" accent). JJ doesn't seem to attack the crowd as he once did, but still does the crouched duck walk. Looking less like the leather-clad thug of yore and more like a resigned elder statesman, he did indeed seem to be enjoying himself.

Dave on keyboards looking a bit older, but still a fucking wiz on the organ (and doing silly things like drinking a pint of beer with one hand while playing the solo on "Walk on By" with the other).

Set list was pretty impressive. It really is remarkable how many great, great songs they have in their oeuvre. They opened with "Toiler on the Sea," which I like -- but never thought of it as a momentum-builder. "Goodbye Toulose" followed. Some pleasant surprises (for me) included airings of "Nuclear Device," "Bring on the Nubiles" (I was leaping about for this one, prompting many an agitated glance from people around me), "Who Wants the World?," "Straighten Out" (honestly, can you name a better song?) and fucking "Tank." Indeed, they dusted off the obligatory renditions of "Golden Brown," "Skin Deep," "Duchess," "Always the Sun," and only a few ones from GIANTS (the new one) and maybe one track from SUITE XVI. The only song from the Paul Roberts era was a rousing bash through "Norfolk Coast." Leery renditions of "Five Minutes," "Hanging Around," "Peaches" and "Nice 'N' Sleazy" brought the house down.

Notable omissions from the hits-heavy set: "Something Better Change," "The Raven," Mean to Me," "Go Buddy Go," "Strange Little Girl," "London Lady." They played nothing off of MENINBLACK (I was hoping against hope for "Just Like Nothing on Earth") and only "Skin Deep" off of AURAL SCULPTURE. Still, it was a beefy set that I can't complain about.

Though he's been gone for over twenty years, the specter of Hugh Cornwell still looms over this band, largely due to the fact that a good 80% of the songs they played were either originally written or sang by the man. In what could only be a bit of calculated irony. the room itself was peppered with flyers advertising an upcoming (well, December) gig by Hugh Cornwell. Wonder if the band could see those flyers from the stage. That must have been a bit weird.

That said, I have newfound respect for Baz Warne. He's a more-than-capable performer and is a charismatic frontman, and his enthusiasm was infectious.

There you have it. There are a couple of pics on my Istagram page, if fucks be given: http://instagram.com/alexinnewyorkcity

Hugh Cornwell is doing a solo show at the Highline Ballroom later on in the year too, so I've heard!

In December, yes. The flyers were all over the venue (as I mentioned).

Sorry, just seen that you've mentioned that in your post, Alex in NYC :) It's strange that they didn't wheel out 'The Raven' or at least 'Thrown Away', because I know for a fact that they've done both of those tracks live in recent years!

let us know how the show was, they're coming to toronto soon and i'm thinking of going but .... no hugh? no jet?.....

― m0stlyClean, Monday, June 3, 2013 10:35 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, Jet's more than getting on a bit in the age department now... and quite frankly, I'm VERY surprised that he's lasted as long as he has. His health problems are nothing new to long-time fans (I think Robert Williams filled in for Jet due to illness on the Dreamtime tour and I'm sure there was a couple of other occasions during the '90s where they had to get someone else to fill in for live dates), and I remember seeing the band on the Suite XVI and was marvelling at how he was managing to keep up with some of the faster paced numbers. Some sheer determination on that guy. It's gotten a little bit more serious in recent years, though... he was taken to hospital not long into the UK tour for the recent album (Giants), and when he returned they set up with two drum-kits and played half the set with a fill in drummer, and then Jet came on half-way through and finished the set off.

*Suite XVI tour.

alex, thanks for the review... sorry to hear about jet's health issues, i wasn't aware....
"dodgy prostate punks", i think i might know a few....

Just got (Gospel According to) MenInBlack recently and the only other thing I know is "Golden Brown", so I'm having a hard time fitting together the talk of them being blokey thugs with this sometimes incredibly weird music.

Very intrigued by the reputation of Cornwell/Williams - Nosferatu.

I cant find what Hugh went to Jail for.

the first few albums are both blokey/thuggish and sometimes incredibly weird

Drugs, Robert.

I still think that Black & White is some batshit dalek punk classic, also JJ Burnell's 'Euroman Cometh', made at the same time, is great in places and really bloody odd.

The Stranglers made some weird music from the outset (check out the 9/4 acid-fried 'Peasant In The Big Shitty' from No More Heroes, for example), but the weirdness in their music had definitely come to the fore by the time they made The Raven, The Gospel, La Folie and Feline. They'd pretty much got the blokey/thuggish element out of their systems after the first three albums, I'd say, and even then they were mostly taking the piss. I mean, it's impossible to listen to 'Bring On The Nubiles' with a straight face.

http://strangledthebook.blogspot.co.uk/

"Bring on the Nubiles" is so deliberately offensive, yes. If you take it seriously, you have taken the bait.

Doesn't it make it any less stupid

^^^ It is really dumb. Possibly offended any grandparents who somehow heard it, so job well done.

Me and a school friend used to impersonate a radio station, ring random people and offer prizes if they could 'name that tune' - then played Bring on the Nubiles. Most slammed the phone down at this point, but one sweet old lady asked "is it The Osmonds?"

Actually, "The New Testament" boxset is being reissued with a bonus disc. It has every last EMI track.

I must correct myself. After spending years plumbing the depths of classic Stranglers, I was listening to the excellent "The UA Singles 77-82" 3CD set and lo and behold there were two b-sides I'd never heard!! "Wired" and "Crabs (live)", the latter appearing in studio form on a JJ solo album. While neither are stormers, I'm amazed that I somehow overlooked them and that they've never been compiled anywhere else before.

Wired is from Hugh Cornwell's solo album 'Nosferatu' which is definitely worth listening to if you don't know it. It's on spotify and most of the tracks are on youtube as well.

Ah yes, I actually have that! Thanks for the clarification.

These were on the 'Don't Bring Harry' EP, released in November '79, the same month that Nosferatu was released and that Hugh was arrested and charged with drug possession. It was released in time for the Christmas record buyers, with this sleeve:

http://www.vinylonthe.net/blah/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/2010-01-11_stranglers45.jpg

From Hugh's drug bust up until the release of 'Golden Brown' was a bit of a turbulent time for the band, really. Not creatively, but definitely personally and career-wise.

So JJ says "Don't bring Harry" and Hugh says "Never a frown with golden brown", pretty different attitudes towards heroin.

I've been listening to all their singles thanks to "The UA Singles 77-82" 3CD set and "Skin Deep: The Collection" 2CD (a terrible name for a great comp of all their 7" A's and B's from their Epic years). Was it just the elimination of drugs that resulted in the dramatic change in their sound or was it a conscious choice to go for a more mainstream approach? I mean, I love both their punk and pop phases but JJ's bass and Jet's drums are just so key to their early sound that when listening the way I've done, it's a dramatic difference between the era's.

I love seeing my old threads revived.

Was it just the elimination of drugs that resulted in the dramatic change in their sound or was it a conscious choice to go for a more mainstream approach? I mean, I love both their punk and pop phases but JJ's bass and Jet's drums are just so key to their early sound that when listening the way I've done, it's a dramatic difference between the era's.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, March 14, 2014 4:24 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd say it was a combination of things, really. Feline was the last of the "drug" albums, there's stories of JJ and Hugh sitting around smacked out of their skulls trying to write 'It's A Small World' and 'Ships That Pass In The Night' and taking forever because they kept nodding out... (The Meninblack, La Folie and Feline being the "heroin" albums, the albums before being influenced by a combination of other drugs). JJ came off heroin just after the time of Feline, Hugh stopped taking all drugs by the time of recording Aural Sculpture (the other two weren't into it, apparently, they were more into other drugs... Jet apparently being known as "the hoover" in the band at one point).

Drugs aside, the band started working with producers again around the time of Aural Sculpture: everything from The Raven up until Feline was self-produced with an engineer (Alan Winstanley, Steve Churchyard etc.) taking care of the technical obstacles. They used Laurie Latham on Aural Sculpture which was the first time they'd used a producer since Martin Rushent, who did the first three albums.

Also, after Feline, JJ & Hugh weren't meeting up to write together as often. A lot of the tracks on the last three Hugh-era albums were solely written by either Hugh or JJ alone and brought into the band, whereas before a lot of their songs would start off with an idea from one member or the other and be developed on between the two members (although there were exceptions, most notably 'Golden Brown', the music of which was written by Dave Greenfield and was moulded into a song by Hugh).

I think by the time of Dreamtime, Hugh was starting to form more of a "solo" identity in his songwriting, and I think he was starting to get bored of being in The Stranglers. I guess the attitudes between the members changed too: Hugh became more ambitious and wanted to be more successful, especially in America, whereas JJ wasn't too bothered about cracking America at all. By the time of 10, I think Hugh began to feel that the bands reputation and collective decisions were beginning to affect their chances of becoming successful to the degree that he wanted to be, and after a proposed American tour for 10 fell through, he decided to leave the band. The attitude being "well, I have no control over how people perceive the band, it's no longer the identity I want for myself anymore, so I'm leaving so I'll judged on my own terms".

Of course, it hasn't quite worked out that way. While Hugh is ploughing onwards, continuing to make (in my opinion) very good records, it would seem that some of the more hardcore Stranglers fans still resent him for leaving the band, and resent him for daring to not keep being Strangler Hugh circa 1978 over and over again, and as a result have sided with the rest of the band. There's still a group of Stranglers fans out there that would love the Stranglers to continue at all costs, even though Jet is seriously in a bad way at the moment (he had to leave a Stranglers tour recently because he ended up in hospital with breathing problems, and even though The Stranglers are on tour now, they play with a stand-in drummer most of the time and Jet only comes on for 3 or 4 songs in the middle of the set, after which he's on oxygen afterwards). JJ is talking about knocking The Stranglers on the head when Jet decides he absolutely can't do anything with The Stranglers anymore, but you'd be very surprised to learn that there's a group of fans there that would be happy for the band to continue in spite of this(!) ... I think the band have been such a huge part of these people's lives for so long that they can't handle the thought of being without the band, even though they've been very fucking fortunate to last this long and retain a fanbase, especially after Hugh left the band. Personally, I think their 40th anniversary (in September) would be the best time to leave it, else it would just become a joke. It's way, way too late for the original line-up to ever reform now. Way too late.

Nice posts! Are you secretly Hugh himself? (^_-)

I don't think I've heard a full Hugh solo album since "Hi-Fi". Your thoughts on them?

Of the albums he's released since Hi Fi, I really enjoy Beyond Elysian Fields (produced by Tony Visconti), which is a real singer-songwriter type of album, mostly based around acoustic guitars. It has a couple of misfires (the corny Bob Dylan tribute '24/7' and the story song 'The Story Of Harry Power'), but on the other hand: 'Land of a Thousand Kisses' (which has a Feline-like vibe to it), 'Cadiz', 'Beauty On The Beach' and 'Henry Moore' are up there with some of his best solo tracks for me.

I also really enjoy his most recent one, Totem and Taboo, recorded with Steve Albini, which is a stripped down (as you'd expect) effort completely focused on electric guitar, bass, drums and voice. It's not as polished as Guilty or Hi Fi and thankfully far from the '80s cheese of Wolf (even though I feel there's some decent songs on there, the production for the most part really ruins them), and there's some great tracks on there: the title track, 'A Street Called Carroll', 'Bad Vibrations' to name three off the top of my head. 'Stuck In Daily Mail Land' even sounds like The Jam melodically, if you can imagine The Jam with Billy Bragg on vocals.

Of the rest: Hooverdam is rawer than Totem and Taboo and was recorded by Liam Watson, who did Elephant by The White Stripes, but I find the production on it anaemic and some of the songs not quite up to snuff. I love 'Please Don't Put Me On A Slowboat To Trowbridge', 'Delightful Nightmare' and 'Philip K. Ridiculous', but it also has a couple of dirges such as 'Pleasure Of Your Company' and 'Within You Or Without You' that I could do without. 'Wrong Side Of The Tracks' is eerily close to Hendrix's 'Crosstown Traffic' for comfort, too.

There's also the odds and sodds collection Footprints In The Desert which were demos of songs which were rejected from Guilty: it has the (in my mind) great single 'Everybody', but also has plenty of cheese on it such as 'Sex Bomb' and 'So Sexual'. If you can imagine some of the cheesier moments from Wired but even more cheesier, then that's the album in a nutshell. It's my least favourite Hugh release by miles, and I don't consider it a proper album in anyway.

There's also his Nosferatu-like side project, Sons Of Shiva, which is worth at least one listen. I think Hugh takes more of a behind the scenes role on the album, though.

In fact, thinking about Hugh has generally used better/"name" producers on his solo stuff than The Stranglers have on their stuff post-Hugh. Their last album was produced by one of their road crew!

So, I'm giving Dreamtime another listen tonight and finding it to be really hitting the spot. The best of the late Hugh period records, IMO.

That one has declined in my estimation over the years whereas I still think "Aural Sculpture" is the best Epic album.

I like Aural Sculpture a lot, but I can't help but think how much better it could have been if they'd subbed in a couple of the B-sides for some of the lesser album tracks. 'In One Door' and 'Head On The Line' were easily good enough to be on the album proper, and maybe I'd take off 'Laughing' and 'Mad Hatter' ... Side One is great as is!

Aural Sculpture is a produced a little flat, but the songs themselves are still so goddamn great -- my favorite being "Ice Queen."

'Ice Queen' is great, yeah... I've always loved the way the brass comes bursting in on that! I think Sculpture was quite a fertile songwriting period for the band... not only did they have enough songs for a shitload of B-sides, but I'm quite sure one or two of the Dreamtime songs were written around the time of Sculpture... 'Shakin' Like a Leaf' was one, I think. 'You' dates from then, too, always felt that that was one that got away.

"Ice Queen" is the song I use to erase earworms when I need to clear my mind. All I do is play it internally and by the end whatever unbidden song is gone.

If "Aural Sculpture" is produced flat, "Dreamtime" is produced like a mainstream rock album and suffers for it. "Always The Sun", though, is as good as anything else they did. But talk about b-sides being better: "Norman Normal" and "Since You Went Away" are far better than "Shakin' Like A Leaf" and "Big In America", both which feel forced.

I like 'Instead of This' and 'Poisonality' so much more than anything from 10 that it isn't even funny. That album was a huge mistake for them to do, IMO, and life in the band seemed quite grim if Hugh's book is to be believed!

'Norman Normal'! That's the one I was thinking of as being another held over from Sculpture... I've always really liked both that one and 'Since You Went Away' ... I'm trying to remember off the top of my head what the other Dreamtime B-sides were... 'Dry Day'?

Oh shit, 'Hit Man'... Let's forget about that one!

Why the hell wasn't 'Was It You?' a single!? "WAS IT YEEEAAAAOOOOW!?!"

For no reason whatsoever, my top ten Stranglers tracks at this very moment.....what are yours?

1. "Five Minutes"
2. "Burning Up Time"
3. "Ice Queen"
4. "The Raven"
5. "Just Like Nothing on Earth"
6. "Norfolk Coast" (no, really .... it's excellent)
7. "Straighten Out"
8. "Hanging Around"
9. "Waltzinblack"
10. "Peaches"

In no particular order:

1. Peasant In The Big Shitty
2. Curfew
3. Toiler On The Sea
4. The Raven
5. Genetix
6. Four Horsemen
7. Tramp
8. Skin Deep
9. Was It You?
10. Instead Of This

This changes on a daily basis, though!

Simon Delic's brilliant revisit of The Stranglers' third album from 1978. It crawled deeper under my skin over the years, and eventually became my favorite by the Stranglers. What he said is spot-on, a cool mix of psych and post-punk elements that just barely predate work by Magazine and Joy Division.

http://www.backseatmafia.com/2016/02/19/not-forgotten-black-white-by-the-stranglers/

While doing a 1986 mix piece I realized Dreamtime is definitely worth a re-listen. Not so sure about Aural Sculpture but will go back to that too, and Feline.

Naturally, I love Black and White, it's probably the starkest record they ever made. Of course, they'd experiment further on The Raven, The Gospel According To The Meninblack and La Folie, but those records feel much less stark and stripped-down to me. The only other Stranglers LP that I can think of with such a starkness is, weirdly, Feline.

For a band that were, at the time, noted for anthems like 'Grip', 'No More Heroes', 'Peaches', 'Something Better Change' and so on, tracks like 'Curfew', 'In The Shadows' and particularly 'Enough Time' (which the band tried to re-learn not too long ago, and struggled with it!) are such a huge leap into uncommercial territory. They definitely weren't seeking to please anyone but themselves by this time, a path which they definitely continued down until Aural Sculpture. I get the impression from Hugh's book that he'd tired of making exploratory music by the mid '80s and suddenly wanted to be, well, a pop star.

I mean, christ, I think Hugh's solo album Wolf, which was recorded and released during a time when the tensions that ultimately led to Hugh leaving were starting to rot Hugh's and JJ's friendship/working relationship, has some fine songs on it when they're freed from their heavy-handed production. But, it's definitely a record which is commonly seen as Hugh trying to have success at any cost, consciously trying to forge a distinct solo identity that had more in common with what Phil Collins was doing than his exploratory work with Robert Williams on Nosferatu. It was Cornwell's chinos era.

Hugh's solo work up through "Hi Fi" is pretty damn good, with "Guilty" being particular top drawer and just damn FUN.

Guilty is a great record, agreed! Possibly his best solo record - a great collection of songs that are well performed and Laurie Latham's production is top notch!

Listened to "10" for the first time since 2001 - and doubtless will be my last time. Irredeemable, talk about losing the plot! The big standard synths, drumming and guitar licks are just so boring! "Out Of My Mind" is the only remotely interesting track.

I completely agree. A lot of hardcore fans blame Roy Thomas Baker's production, which to be fair is over the top and ill-fitting, and the fact they had to record the album twice after CBS thought the first recording (with future Oasis producer Owen Morris) was unsuitable. Personally, I just think they just didn't have a strong batch of material that time around. The one song I really like from that whole period is 'Instead of This', which was a B-side!

I'm seeing reports that Dave Greenfield has passed away and it was covid-related. :(

Sadly confirmed.

David Paul Greenfield (29/3/49-3/5/20) We are devastated to announce that Dave passed away last night from Covid 19. Fly straight DG xxx https://t.co/HmnAs1rERe pic.twitter.com/H2570s0cOb

— The Stranglers Site (@StranglersSite) May 4, 2020

Oh no!