#focus#mustwin#playoffs#drama? : 2013 NBA playoffs

scottie did have that thing where he played alongside mj until he was like 30 and then was an mvp candidate until mj came back.

people are acting like dwyane wade should retire or something, meanwhile his playoff PER in 2013 = 18.2, scottie pippen's career playoff PER = 18.4

fuk stats u nerd

"literally there is no evidence supporting an argument that scottie pippen was better than dwayne wade" -guy who was in diapers during Pip's prime

Of course, PER doesn't account for defense like Scottie played night in and night out. Pippen > Wade, but both are hall of famers. It's not like Wade sucks or something.

pippen's defense can't possibly amount to the offensive gulf between those two

I got no prob w/someone picking Wade over Pip, but lol'ing about the opposite just shows you don't know shit and/or are trollin

Yeah it's more even than any kinda landslide for sure. But I'd take Pippen >

pippen is an all-time great, much better defender than wade even at wade's peak (and wade was a great defender too), but wade clearly the more devastating and versatile offensive player. they're both top-25 imo, it's close

it's not like wade is monta ellis on defense or something

he rightfully gets shit for being lazy nowadays but he was a very good man defender in his prime years and also is the best shot blocking guard of all time

pippen was just that good on defense tho

i'd still pick wade primarily because peak wade > peak pippen. there aren't many players ever who beat peak wade

Hard to know what Pippen woulda/coulda done as the top dog.

also is the best shot blocking guard of all time

also debatable

we had that debate already, wade's block numbers are better than jordan's and he's also 2-3 inches shorter

the most important thing that pippen has over wade imo is durability

actually thru 1st 10 yrs of career MJ has higher bpg

jordan is not a pure guard tho

not MJ's fault he's taller, that's a funny argument there

oh brother

would you compare jordan's block numbers to someone that's 6-9?

But is the argument based on height or position? your og stance was "guard"

wade is purely a guard

i don't think jordan was purely a guard

if he played guard 95% of the time and we were discussing the best shot blocking guards ever uh yeah

jordan wasn't much less of a pure guard than wade. they're both hybrids that like to post smaller defenders up

granny, the game was played at a much faster pace in jordan's day, so counting stats like BPG don't translate neatly. wade's block percentage, which takes pace into account, is better than MJ's was

xp anyway the height thing is a red herring - wade blocked a higher percentage of shots

MJ guarded the 2 95% of the time, just like Wade.

wade's block percentage, which takes pace into account, is better than MJ's was

fair enough but are you going off of MJ's whole career or 1st 10 yrs?

even in the first 10 years wade's is higher

ok then I totally pick Wade over Pip. to suck my ballz.

Sorry to interrupt but dammmmmnit!

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9327374/sacramento-kings-choose-golden-state-warriors-assistant-mike-malone-coach-according-source

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0530/nba_r_miami-heat_mb_576.jpg

Of course, PER doesn't account for defense like Scottie played night in and night out. Pippen > Wade, but both are hall of famers. It's not like Wade sucks or something.

― EZ Snappin, Friday, May 31, 2013 12:36 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

pippen's defense can't possibly amount to the offensive gulf between those two

― J0rdan S., Friday, May 31, 2013 12:39 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

uh he was one of the all time great perimeter defenders, also the de facto point guard for an all time great offense, its easy just to check on pippins per (which btw he played for a long time and youre comparing the yet to be old wades numbers to pippins entire career) and not understand how great he was

and fwiw as for the supporting cast argument the heat dont have anyone outside their top three w a per over 15, and just on a logical level we all know how great the big three are, if they had a good supporting cast they would be a better team than they are, they had a 8pt scoring differential this season, thats good enough for second in the league, but its not approaching all time levels, so its either bron/wade/bosh are not as good as we think or the rest of their guys are not very good

pippen is like a just-outside-top-ten all time player, was player 1B for six championships only because 1A was the goat, took teams w/o said goat to ~50 wins twice and had a late-career third act as a very solid point guard for a very good portland team that kept getting smashed by his old coach's new team. oh and he was either the best or second-best perimeter defender of all time depending on where lebron ends up (i'm guessing he relegates scottie to #2 but that's not bad).

the book's not really written on wade yet but if you're talking career, gimme pip, if i have to win one game or one series, gimme 06 finals wade.

wade v clearly needs that kobe on his knee right now though, he barely even needs to put on his fake grimace because he's in actual pain and doesn't have the right lift on his jump shot

^^ this is sorta what I was trying to say about wade seeming disinterested in this series: he's obviously in pain and going through the motions.

I couldn't see wade having the third act that pip had because the circumstances differ wildly and pippen had a blessedly injury-free career for the most part. Yet to be seen if wade can just play the role he has to play in his mid-30's. It's the main curiosity in Kobe's inevitable comeback.

/the book's not really written on wade yet but if you're talking career, gimme pip, if i have to win one game or one series, gimme 06 finals wade/

ya I think this is p accurate, I keep thinking they're kinda comparable in overall value but then when I think abt which one I'd take on my team its pip no question, he was just so dynamic

and fwiw i do think the heat would be better w pip than wade but that's maybe more abt fit

wade was an incredible, incredible player for a stretch much longer than one year

and he would be such a monster in todays scrambling ball movement three point shooting rotating small ball flooding the strong side nba

wade had a long stretch of dominance its true and even got robbed of an MVP by kobels, theyre both great players

i just think if you're talking about a single player in the nba, offense is the single most important aspect and wade is a historically good and efficient scorer who was also a very good on-ball defender for a time

wades lack of 3 pt range is a chink in his otherwise impeccable armor

Zach Lowe: If you want to be an NBA champion, you have to be prepared to slog through some games, or even entire series, on terms that aren't entirely your own. When the competition reaches its peak level, even the very best team won't be able to dictate the terms of engagement every night — especially if that team's second-best player (once upon a time, anyway) is a shell of himself.

The Heat did not play offense in Game 5 like they played it for most of this season, and they did not go about playing it with the lineups they envisioned leaning upon when they built this team. And yet they still put up nearly 107 points per 100 possessions, elite-level production, against the league's best defense — a defense that has eliminated Miami's 3-point game and kept the Heat off the foul line last night.

The poster child for this crisis adaptation is Shane Battier. He has made two shots in this series. Two. He's a role player, but his importance to this team is much larger than his role. He's the wing player who has "sacked up," as Roy Hibbert would say, and agreed to almost exclusively guard bully power forwards in the last days of his career. That has allowed Miami to build around small lineups, unleashing a terrifying 3-point attack that blitzed the league.

Battier played eight minutes last night, and less than two in the second half. Miami relied in that decisive half on two sorts of lineups they didn't use all that much, in relative terms, before this series: lineups with two traditional big men, and smaller lineups that did not include Battier, units that force LeBron to defend a big man.

The bigger lineups had the run of the third quarter, when LeBron went crazy, reminding everyone (including himself) of his Cleveland days. But the Heat in that quarter didn't look like those Cavaliers as much as they looked like … the Heat, from 2010-11 and especially last season, before Chris Bosh's abdominal injury pushed Erik Spoelstra to Battier-centric small lineups.

Miami in that quarter went back to its "old Miami" sets as comfortably as a man plopping down on a well-used couch and finding his ass imprint still there. The Heat ran those old "corner" plays, where they enter the ball to LeBron or Dwyane Wade (just LeBron last night) at one elbow, station a big man at the opposite elbow and a shooter in each corner, and have that big man join the one leftover player in setting a monster double screen for one of those corner shooters. LeBron in those sets scanned his options: pass to that corner shooter as he curled off that double screen? Pitch the ball to that player in the corner, and sprint over to set a screen in a devastating quick-hitting pick-and-roll? Just drive and score?

He made the right call every time. And on one beauty, Udonis Haslem — UDONIS FREAKING HASLEM, everyone! — was the big man at the other elbow and began creeping over to the corner as LeBron held the ball, as if he were going to set the usual double screen down there. And as his man, Hibbert, slid down toward the corner, expecting the typical fare, Haslem suddenly changed directions, darted back over to LeBron, and set a screen for the world's best player that caught Indiana flat-footed. LeBron splashed his easiest jumper of the game.

It was a midrange 2 — a shot Miami has tried to excise, to the degree possible, from its arsenal. But they needed some of those tonight, with Wade and Bosh doing very little, and against a very, very good Indiana team. The NBA playoffs: adapt or die.

what I don't get is if LBJ is at or near MJ's level, Wade>Pippen, Bosh>Rodman, and the supporting cast is good...why are they struggling? Why did they lose to the Mavs? (I already know the reasons given by LBJ/Heat lovers, just think they're b.s.)

well the 2011 team is a different story

how exactly are they struggling, anyway?

plenty of championship teams -- even greatest teams ever! -- have been taken six games in a playoff series

that said i think they'd have to win tomorrow night and take the spurs in 5 to have had a really stellar postseason

well the way wade is playing right now is nowhere near pippen

struggling cause they lost to the Spurs in 6