Let's have a heated debate about At Swim-Two-Birds

"My only problem with Brian O'Nolan (two of whose pseudonyms are Flann O'Brien and Myles na Gopaleen) is that he seemed too satisfied to be Irish to be sane"

(I don't think I agree w that)

yah i don't think i agree with either of the premises there

what's that touristy pub in dublin with all the myles paraphernalia, i like that pub

would be a tourist in that pub

above quote is gass btw (I'm nothing if not predictable)

ah see from gass i imagine he's just after the lols so

A gass man surely

Bleurgh just read this, hated it, discovered it's a so-called masterpiece, am grateful for the existence of this thread.

Metafiction like this is so bloodless unless you end up caring about the crafting of the story – like in Borges. He liked this book apparently but I find his metafictional stuff so much more enticing...

O'Brien's sense of humour just doesn't work for everybody

not sure that its status as masterpiece is in question tbph, but other than that you didn't like it obv commiserations back on the horse tho the next book u read could change your life

"sir, the pictures are not on trial"

i don't like it either. there are funny parts but it is kinda paddywhackery.

there are so many great writers that are amusing about irishness and ireland, the competition is pretty high, most are funnier than this imo and they make interesting observations as well as being witty.

i always mean to try third policeman tho.

i mean someone like beckett, his novels and stories are really funny without needing a big band of dancing leprechauns to hammer home the joke just in case you missed it the first 1000 times.

Third Policeman is an utterly different gig and well worth yr time. tbh, Swim-Two-Birds isn't much like any of his other books, bar his voice

Making lighthearted and less begrudgingly embittered observations about ireland in the thirties/forties/fifties would seem to be missing the mark imo

Try third policeman, very different tone and approach imo, more wonder and space to it vs astb

Any further recommendations for paddywhackery and other writers being amusing about irishness and ireland? I think that's what I enjoyed most about this. Have read and enjoyed Dubliners and some JP Donleavy.

yeah i mean, i totally accept at the time it was different.

i kinda came to o'brien last after some joyce and a lot of beckett, i dunno, astb was the first irish classic i didn't enjoy.

obv a lot later but have any of you read much behan? i picked up "brendan behan's island" at a second-hand stall a while back, it's brilliant, just full of great stories.

xpost

the above, and samuel beckett - murphy. i find portrait of an artist p funny too in places.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-si235kWNc5I/UCfBawRf5JI/AAAAAAAAAOs/FRbxaiX_7K0/s1600/Puckoon.jpg

Donleavy fans – this was fun:
http://www.nowness.com/day/2010/4/5/517/ink-and-canvas

Definitely will give Third Policeman a try, of course I got the sense in ASTB that a lot of it would be much more funny if you were familiar with the Irish Epics and literary trends at that time, which admittedly I am not.

Totally different writer and period but I've always enjoyed John McGahern on irishness. More bleak than funny though. ASTB also made me think of The Hounds of the Morrigan by Pat O Shea. It's a kids book but does similar things... characters from Irish folklore misbehaving and being silly in a contemporary, domestic setting.

i've only dipped into behan and probably before i was old enough to get a lot of the language and nuance

frank o'connor, obv

even having said that i may be thinking of jb keane for behan there.

pat mccabe kinda fits the bill too.

i was a little disappointed by astb too tbh.

I will stan for astb forever, but I think it might be one of those books that you only love if you came to it as a teenager. Definitely not at the level of Joyce/Beckett in terms of soul, but it is its own unique beautiful artifice.

i think the only Behan i've read is Borstal Boy and i don't remember very much at all, but i'd guess it isn't especially representative of his creative work?

Came to astb six months ago or so.

I dunno would i regard it as lacking in soul. Maybe whether or not one feels kindred with the type of soul on display might well have a bearing on how one responds to the novel?

tbh this thread is giving me the yen to re-read ATSB

except, y'know, with the initials in the right order

ATSB was one of the tom clancy game reboots iirc rip fallen eagle ;_;

I'm as well to say that I'm profoundly disappointed in ilxs lack of clamour for this most perfect of works. I've decided that.

Then perhaps you've not noticed the bagging and shine at the knees of my trousers from kneeling to genuflect at its altar, now have you? I should say not.

A pint or suggest ban is your only man, darrahmac.

To say its not enough is a criticism of your limited numbers being in and of yourself only yourself, man.

xp

I think fob would have been strongly for the sb and furthermore as myles would have written a scorcher setpiece about modding if his sketches on courtrooms are anything to go by

I am put in mind to say, was not Finn MacCool a man of breadth, of height, of reach, of parts, of skill with the bow, the staff and fist, quick to fury, gentle as a lamb with the softer sex, determined as a limpet and alert as a fine hound, in short a man worth a multitude? Would you also account him too few in number, being but one, is the question I would be asking you and think it worth your while to answer.

A fine man to ask it,indeed! But is it not the case, and well acknowledged, that under the modern system (and I need not remind you under which lot THAT was brought in!) the vote of such a man, or any man, can be set aside by the single perpendicular vote of any common guttersnipe, marauder, barroom solicitor, thief, local councillor or essayist?

I mean to say, whether a yarn is tall or small I like to hear it well told. I like to meet a man that can take in hand to tell a story and not make a balls of it while he's at it. I like to know where I am, do you know. Everything has a beginning and an end.

(ie I love this book too)

I've put enough of these posts in my mouth for a fortnight's chewing

Do you tell me that? It is very baffling to hear it, and will certainly have dire implications if it ever gets as far as the fourcourts.

I mean to say, whether a yarn is tall or small I like to hear it well told. I like to meet a man that can take in hand to tell a story and not make a balls of it while he's at it. I like to know where I am, do you know. Everything has a beginning and an end.

― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Friday, 8 January 2016 03:17 (one year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Good post

This is the best book

I mean the scene where the good fairy calls to the pooka and he still abed

There is no scene to match it

Relate us further, for the love of God.

Don't be doing this to me now boys, I've just come to bed and I'll be buggered if I'm getting up again to hunt down the book.

Of the noodles you have ever got, which have you found the vaguest?

There is finer stuff in that suit than was ever in any angels eye is the stone coldest drawing of a metaphorical blade that ever was conceived. Olivier buck naked locked out of Scott's tent would fall miles short of the frigidity of tone demanded

Nature of thread: civil, perfunctory, uninformative

The conclusion of your syllogism is fallacious, being based upon licensed premises.

I saw that my witticism was unperceived and quietly replaced it in the treasury of my mind.

So about the collected letters.

Apparently a right miserable so-and-so, Brian O'Nolan.

Recommended read?

reviewed poorly by a cunt with an axe to grind in the sunday times a few weeks back but that doesnt negate the review neither

Also reviewed poorly in the Lit Review, basically saying it starts well, but there's too much repetitious bulk from the later, bitter, less talented years.

Ugh.

Which of us could not be thus reviewed?

I am going to review them.