defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

i feel like the iraq war was such a perfect storm of carefully nurtured (for decades!) imperial dream-lust and blowback historical circumstance, that no opposition argument is really *too* reductive, no matter much it may seem. they really were after oil! and regional hegemony! and looking for new piles of rubble to cheer on. it's all there no matter how distractedly you look.

this is a great thread. treeship and difficult listening hour are BRINGING IT.

in 2003 my international relations professor said that if you weren't a fan of american hegemony there was something encouraging about the iraq war, because truly powerful hegemons don't need to send in troops. that america was reduced to going to war in order validate its hegemonic credentials was the first sign of its decline as hegemon.

i'm wrong, there's totally a professor out there somewhere with an argument too reductive, i take it all back

do you think he was wrong? seems pretty on point to me

i don't believe that truman invaded korea or JFK invaded vietnam because of 'the automatic self-perpetuating behavior of systems.'

oh, rrrrreally

Truman didn't invade Korea.

I suppose we could allude to Frederick Jackson Turner and frontier theory, with imperialism the means by which a nation MUST use its considerable resources to find new markets as well as use those fancy battleships and planes, etc. Henry Adams said at the turn of the century that power requires a way to test it, therefore it was inevitable that nations like Germany and Japan, growing at an astonishing rate, would eventually provoke war; they were powder kegs ready for explosions.

nah, some cultures obv suck

― Mordy , Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:37 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark

agreed, for example the racist settler state known as Israel
--turds (Hungry4Ass)

Key troll

kinda one-note imo. if you're not furthering the parameters of the troll u're just running in place

don't be defensive Mordy acknowledge the burn

i thought he meant his own trolling

it burns

he's got a point. good trolling doesn't stick to old boundaries, it needs to expand, it needs to, you know, establish an ongoing presence in contested areas

Lolol

otm. trolling creates new facts on the ground.

the problem with Hungry4Ass was that he was not trolling enough

he's our own little suicide bomber

yeah, that's the thing. trolling me about israel is so easy that even morbz can do it. i thought hungry4ass was into the next level trolling.

if there's one thing the history of ilx has taught us, it's that trolling will not be contained. trolling breaks free. it expands to new territories; it crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, ah... well, there it is.

trolling finds a way

also trolling israel is already glenn's shtick so it's kinda just reframing the question
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/337357514440077312

when we troll, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll troll again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's trolls ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

a+

GG pwned Bill Maher a few weeks ago x1000 when he was off on one of his usual blaming everything on religious extremism tangents.

morbs: yes, rrrrreally

C'mon HST just rejiggered Teddy Roosevelt's imperialism from Hiroshima on, and JFK ran with it.

trolling me about israel is so easy that even morbz can do it

Which side of your reversible Bibi Netanyahu/Cole Hamels pajamas are you wearing now?

well yeah, but i don't see that as a system 'automatically perpetuating' itself so much as a series of presidents actively and aggressively seizing more and more power for themselves (enabled by congress, natch). trust me, no truman/JFK apologist here!

i do have a soft spot for TR despite the obv problems.

TR is a complicated figure.

C'mon HST just rejiggered Teddy Roosevelt's imperialism

what on earth does this mean?

Harry taught TR how to dance?

i initially read it as 'hunter s. thompson just rejiggered teddy roosevelt's imperialism.'

My main problem with GG is personal. Set the politics aside and he's a pompous ass who responds to all criticism with sneering and condescension. I could agree with everything he says and still think he's a dick.

that is the only way to respond to people who are wrong.

GG is a pretty nice guy in person.

That's interesting. I've heard the opposite.

C'mon HST just rejiggered Teddy Roosevelt's imperialism

what on earth does this mean?

it means that if you stand on san juan hill and look north you can almost see the high-water mark

He seems like he'd be nice irl... Nerdy, earnest, literal-minded xp

i saw him speak last year and chatted with him for about 10 minutes afterward and he was really nice, i assume he gets out all his aggression through vicious exchanges on twitter.

tbh i'd be a dick sometimes too if ppl kept calling me a libertarian.

I agree with DL though. I don't like the rhetorical style where u act like your opinions are SO OBVIOUS that it's a shock when someone doesnt automatically agree with you. Jezebel is like this, I think, and it's annoying to me even when i agree with them which is often.

xp Anyone can be decent chatting to someone who agrees with them but I can't think of another major pundit, left or right, who is so pompous and graceless when responding to even mild dissent, except maybe Bill O'Reilly.

yeah, that's the thing. trolling me about israel is so easy that even morbz can do it. i thought hungry4ass was into the next level trolling.

― Mordy , Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:15 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

tbh i didnt know you were 'into' israel until a few weeks ago. thought you were one of the good ones b4 that

oh well now you know the awful truth that i am a bad one

thought you were one of the good ones

damn fine trolling there. he raised his game a notch.

yeah, that's the thing. trolling me about israel is so easy that even morbz can do it.

― Mordy , Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:15 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

Morbz has a pretty low batting average but tremendous trolling power when he connects.

good slugging percentage tho

i'm very sincere when it comes to issues of jewishness and israel. it involves my family and friends and it is something i feel very emotional about. i try very hard on ilx to discuss it intelligently and engage ppl in legitimate debate on the topic. i suppose it's fair game to troll me on it but when i read morbz do it, or hungry4ass, or gukbe, or the numerous ppl on ilx who have trolled me on the issue, i feel momentarily sad and disappointed and i try not to get into a fight about it. on the other hand if it seems like someone has a legitimate point they want to discuss, it's one of my favorite things to talk about.

so yeah, good trolling dudes. i got the feels or however the kids describe it these days.