Britpop : Time For Reevaluation?

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I'm trying to think if there was ever a time when American bands were ever so unabashedly jingoistic as their Britpop brothers.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:57 (seventeen years ago) link

http://bluestormmusic.com/store/images/grandfunk-wereanamerican.jpg

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 13:59 (seventeen years ago) link

X-post
Bato isn't in a band.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:05 (seventeen years ago) link

actually in terms of innovation British metal in the 00s has been lacking, however these are amongst the elite

Akercocke
Anaal Nathrakh
Axis of Perdition
Earthtone 9
Esoteric
Frost [half brits half norsk]

so how are they innovating?

does it work like 4/4 dance music where the big progression this decade has been on increased sense of space and depth, technical intricacy beyond the 'surfaces' of tracks, minimal-complex etc. - are these same ideas being applied to Metal by these bands? or something else?

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:19 (seventeen years ago) link

To be honest most of the time I don't really notice where a bands from. Perhaps that's because I cant always find interviews (apart from maybe Rockarolla) so i have no idea where they are from.

Some good brit bands/acts around just now ...hmmm
Jesu
Holy McGrail
Atavist
Skullflower
Ashtray Navigations
James Blackshaw
The Heads
Electric Wizard
Moss
Sickoakes

I haven't heard The Lords or Crippled Black Phoenix albums yet so I can't judge them.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:20 (seventeen years ago) link

"oh and JESU piss allover most things around just now. Wheres the NME and Kerrang front covers?"

http://a420.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/40/m_82070278bb95f67298a9618760e3399b.gif

― scott seward, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:21 (seventeen years ago) link

my analysis of British (& some Irish) from the recent past. Overall British music in recent times has been lacking in numbers i.e quantity of quality in terms of talent.
.
What may be the contributing factors?

the post Peel era of a more conservative Radio 1
Xfm generic rubbish / with a very conservative format
6 Music completely underperforming with dull radio programming ruled on behalf of pluggers
Useless established print media and no effective and different weekly competition for NME and Kerrang
Increasing fragmentation of self contained music scenes
No interesting music on mainstream TV, e.g another snoring boring series of the jools holland show

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/djmartian/mercury_music_prize_2006

Some Eligible Albums for the Mercury Music Prize 2006. i.e British or Irish Artists who released an album between July 25th 2005 and July 17th 2006.

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/djmartian/mercury_music_prize_2005

Some Eligible Albums for the Mercury Music Prize 2005. i.e British or Irish Artists who released an album between July 26th 2004 and July 18th 2005.

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link

How does Justin Broadrick look so young*? He's been around forever?

* He is young
Well, under 40 anyway.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:31 (seventeen years ago) link

another slant, Norway has a population of under 5 Million, 12 times smaller than the UK - and is punching way above it's comparative size in a wide range of music genres.

as demonstrated by their national music promotion portal

MIC Norway
http://www.mic.no/english

Why is Norway performing so well culturally in the 00s?
Why are their musicians willing to be more creative?
Does a smaller country facilitate music to thrive more easily compared to other larger European countries?

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:54 (seventeen years ago) link

the next grozart OTM

I moan about Pitchfork too, but IRL that message, that the US (not to forget other places but particularly w/r/t US indie vs UK indie) wipes the floor with most of our (Britishes) efforts is v.much what I've been expressing to my friends for, years now.

And yeah, the Klaxons embodying the sudden appearance of "omg thinking outside THE RULES fisher price my first experimental pop/rock band" as some kind of belated antidote/apology for the last half decade of dour, dopey conservative mediocrity is just tragic when something like that Marnie Stern album just absolutely FLATTENS teh Klaxons for excitement, freshness and pure giddy RAWK fun.

I don't care for almost ANY of Louis suggestions sadly :( (not even Beta Band and esp. not SFA ugh).

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Because of Geir!

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:03 (seventeen years ago) link

the nebulous post-electroclash/post-DFA/Ed Banger/Indieclash thing suddenly getting "New Rave" as a nom de plume, just in case it was in any danger of going somewhere interesting, less retro, more creative is ... kind of irritating.

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Guys, this is moaning and self-pity is bullshit, and gets on my nerves. In the USA Nickelback sold 5 million records, not the Animal Collective or Joanna Newsom. There are dozens of good artists in the UK who are actually not generic indie, from Patrick Wolf to Electrelane and so on. Lock this thread, please.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

This has probably been true for the last 20 years. [/yankophile]

Don't really agree with this either. The nineties were an exceptional time for UK pop music and as far as the more challenging stuff is concerned, the UK has led the way in many other styles up until about five years ago what with Warp Records etc.

the next grozart on Friday, 9 March 2007 13:00 (1 hour ago)

The original quote referred specifically to the indie scene, rather than music in general, so pop music isn't relevant. I wasn't saying there hasn't been both fantastic and challenging music from the UK, of course there has been, but I still feel we don't really compare with the US, BUT that is from the viewpoint of my personal music taste. Maybe I should have said the last 10 years. Certainly I think you have to dig a lot deeper since BritPop to find stuff that doesn't suck. I suppose I blame BritPop for ruining "indie" and haven't forgiven it! I know during the BritPop Years 95-97 I pretty much gave up on UK indie.

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

If it hadn't been for the internet and finding about music from other countries that weren't covered by the uk press, I would've been either stuck in mojo land or out of music completely after exhausting krautrock and "lost classics".

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Shame we can't add a poll to this thread "Did britpop kill UK Indie?"

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:18 (seventeen years ago) link

There are dozens of good artists in the UK who are actually not generic indie, from Patrick Wolf to Electrelane and so on.

zeus

selling absolutely fuck all, even compared to Joanna Newsom, I'd wager?

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, the Patrick Wolf album is actually almost in the Top 40.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:24 (seventeen years ago) link

ok, I lose :/

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:29 (seventeen years ago) link

current albums sold in the UK outside the top 40, by artists that haven't previously had a top 40 chart album

6 Music chart
http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/chart/chart_page.shtml

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:29 (seventeen years ago) link

So was the Joanna Newsom record.

What DJ Martian says above about the Norwegian music scene is equally, if not more so, applicable to the scene in Canada at the moment. How come they manage to be so much more creative than Britain? Probably it's a matter not just of distance, but of the lack of any perceived need for rivalry or coolness and a willingness to experiment without instantly being pinned down by the media.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:30 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/chart/chart_page.shtml

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:30 (seventeen years ago) link

That Marnie Stern record sounds interesting; I'll definitely be checking that out.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:31 (seventeen years ago) link

The marnie stern album is great

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Thanks for that link, djmartian, that's interesting.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Re: Canada

I can see a thread in 3 years: 'What happened with the Canadian indie scene?!'

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:37 (seventeen years ago) link

There's probably already one

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

The reason the Canadian indie scene is so great is for one reason: THEY FREAKING SUBSIDIZE THE F*CK OUT OF IT. Plus the whole protectionism of Cancon on all media channels

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:07 (seventeen years ago) link

So Canadian protectionism is a good thing, but the British protectionism is jingoism? Strange effects.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Haven't seen the Arts Council sticking their arm out recently. Mind you, when the emblem of decadence in British music in 2007 is the Horrors, can you really blame them?

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

If its not classical it won't get funded, right?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:50 (seventeen years ago) link

These Canadians win the worst name award though.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Either that or it has to come under the nefarious boundaries of "world music" or "community music."

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Wot, no vernacular music?

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 16:55 (seventeen years ago) link

That would mean giving public money to Jack McLaughlin.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Subsidised indie rock would be worse than NME Carling Rock though I'm sure.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:07 (seventeen years ago) link

It would probably sound like Fat Les.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Canadian indie isn't subsidised for being indie, it's subsidised for being CANADIAN.

That's what you've got to do to keep some kind of national cultural identity when up against the giant cultural monolith next door.

I mean, maybe that's a point. Who are British bands competing with, locally? Breton hip-hop? I don't think so.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Ireland!

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 17:13 (seventeen years ago) link

There's no Scottish subsidy for jingly jangly bands.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:15 (seventeen years ago) link

But it there may well be legislation introduced after the forthcoming elections

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 17:17 (seventeen years ago) link

It would probably sound like Fat Les.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy on Friday, 9 March 2007 17:11 (5 minutes ago)

Fat Les no worse than the horrors.

― Pashmina, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Keith Allen isn't in The Horrors though.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't actually heard any music by The Horrors. That's probably in their favour just now. Are they as bad as I imagine?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:19 (seventeen years ago) link

"Canadian indie isn't subsidised for being indie, it's subsidised for being CANADIAN."

This is not quite true. For bands like You Say Party We Say Die (horrid name I guess, but quite a good band), the only way they are subsidised would be through increased radio/media exposure via the CRTC broadcast requirements. Most stations have to play 35% Canadian Content. However some stations also have a requirement to play a certain percentage of independent releases. At the station I'm with we have to play (if memory serves) 35% Canadian, 60% independent, 60% releases from the last 6 months and 50% female-related artists (ie. at least one member of the band is a woman).

Other stations have various other playlist requirements, the idea being that EVERYTHING gets some exposure. Culturally specific genres like reggae, merengue and yes, even Brit-pop, generally have different Can-con rules - usually something like 10%.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:42 (seventeen years ago) link

The Canadian government also GIVES MONEY AWAY IN THE FORM OF GRANTS so that Canadian bands can tour. I know this is true because I've toured on one of these grants, back when I was in a Canadian pop band.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Indie on the rates. Henry Root would be horrified.

― Noodle Vague, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, but generally speaking, those grants are not for new bands such as YSPWSD because you must have specialized training in your field and have to already be recognised as a professional musician by your peers (two of the requirements). It's tricky for a new band to comply with those requirements.

However, my point was that in some ways indie music IS subsidized.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:49 (seventeen years ago) link

If it's so tricky to get one, then how the heck did a little tiny indie band like mine manage to get one? (Unless things have changed dramatically in the past 5 years.)

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:51 (seventeen years ago) link

By the way, I know Shimura Curves got played on my station a while back, partly because it scored 3 out of 4 of the CRTC requirements.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:52 (seventeen years ago) link

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