lol
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
here's a good onehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMJsrZkEZZw
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
Well it's not at the bottom of the bass line- typically you might play 1,3,5,7,9- but it is below everything else.
My music theory teacher once said to me "you jazz guys are always coming up with a chord name for everything -- 'Oh, that's an A flat nine sus 4 sharp five flat nine chord'"
― Blue Yodel No. 9 Dream (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
Well a slash chord also specifies that you want that note in the bass, and otherwise you're leaving it up to the people reading the charts
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link
I don't know, 9th to me implies that it's at the upper end of the voicing, otherwise it's just a 2 right?
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
yeah huge difference between writing a chart that says C/D vs. C9
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
some of it may be influenced by how closely other notes are clustered to it? generally a 9th is going to be above the core triad that defines the chord whereas a 2nd is in a tone cluster with the triad, so if the bass note is an octave below the core chord it makes syntactic sense to me to consider it a 9th to imply the intended spacing of the chord
notation-wise slash notation makes more sense obv
― Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
_Well a slash chord also specifies that you want that note in the bass, and otherwise you're leaving it up to the people reading the charts_yeah huge difference between writing a chart that says C/D vs. C9
― Blue Yodel No. 9 Dream (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
I guess one issue with a chord like F/G is that this is best name for it and there is no great way of referring to the type of chord it is without referring to the actual names of the notes.
The other thing is about the terminology of saying something is a second or a ninth. Most of the time when people use the word ninth it implies that it is a higher voice in the chord, as y'all have suggested, and that the (flat)seventh is present, whereas second implies that the seventh(or a sixth filling in for the seventh) is not present. But every once in a while somebody might use either one to simply mean something like 'a G somewhere on an F chord'
― Blue Yodel No. 9 Dream (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 16:35 (ten years ago) link
Then there is the Steely Dan "Mu Chord" apparently they invented to get a kind of jazz voicing without sounding too much like actual jazz
― Blue Yodel No. 9 Dream (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 16:46 (ten years ago) link
I guess some would also call that F/G a G9sus4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V9sus4_chord#Jazz_sus_chord
― Blue Yodel No. 9 Dream (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 16:59 (ten years ago) link
yeah steely dan did not "invent" that
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 17:01 (ten years ago) link
Tell it to this guy: http://www.hakwright.co.uk/steelydan/mu-major.html
― Blue Yodel No. 9 Dream (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 17:02 (ten years ago) link
Hopefully they came up with the name, at least.
― Blue Yodel No. 9 Dream (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 17:03 (ten years ago) link
The Beatles' "Getting Better" is an interesting example. The verses are not really a pedal point so much as a drone, I guess, but it's played by nearly all the instruments in the arrangement - bass, guitar, sitar, piano - in different octaves while the vocal melody is very, very busy.
― Huston we got chicken lol (Phil D.), Wednesday, May 1, 2013 8:39 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I can hear the verse melody as modal over a drone, but the chorus melody seems like more of a question. It seems like maybe there's a chord progression, but it's only being suggested by the bass line (while the other instruments are just repeating one chord).
― timellison, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 17:06 (ten years ago) link
the getting better verse just sounds like it stays on G the whole time to me.
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
Let's see what Alan Pollack has to say: http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/gb.shtml
― Blue Yodel No. 9 Dream (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 17:25 (ten years ago) link
I-ii-iii-IV for the chorus sounds OK playing it by yourself, but not so great when played along with the arrangement.
I checked the Wilfrid Mellers book and he doesn't discuss it.
― timellison, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 17:40 (ten years ago) link
chorus sounds to me like C, Dm/C, G, F
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
I'd definitely disagree with the G chord. I think the bass has E on the downbeat.
― timellison, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
And then D on the downbeat of the next measure, so maybe it's back to the ii chord.
― timellison, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 18:43 (ten years ago) link
(Making it I-ii-iii-ii instead of I-ii-iii-IV.)
― timellison, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 18:46 (ten years ago) link
yeah you're right. now that I actually figured out the bass line it just seems like C, Am, Em, F
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:10 (ten years ago) link
I-vi-iii-IV
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:12 (ten years ago) link
The bass line has A and C in that second bar, but that's not an A minor chord. The notes in the melody are D and F.
― timellison, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:23 (ten years ago) link
I'm listening to the electric piano part in the left channel as well as the bass line and it sure sounds like Am to me. doesn't really matter what the melody is doing imo since melodies use notes outside of the chord all of the time.
But I guess if you want to include the G drone that the guitar is playing in the right channel throughout that whole progression, then it's C, Am7, Em, Fadd9
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:56 (ten years ago) link
hmm, maybe it's a Dm. I don't know
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 20:03 (ten years ago) link
I guess I should have just looked at that alan pollack page haha
― wk, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 20:04 (ten years ago) link
The Nazz' "Forget All About It" is cool. In the verse, it's i-IV-III. It's not a tonic pedal point under the i and IV chords, but there's a pentatonic run under the iv chord and it has the same effect.
― timellison, Thursday, 23 May 2013 01:23 (ten years ago) link
Just realized it's in six-four, too!
― timellison, Thursday, 23 May 2013 01:43 (ten years ago) link
And the pedal-like pentatonic thing happens in the extra two beats in the measure.
― timellison, Thursday, 23 May 2013 02:03 (ten years ago) link
Chorus of "Listen to What the Man Said" has a bass tonic pedal underneath a ii chord at the beginning and then over I-ii-iii ("That's what the man said/So won't you listen to what the man said?").
― timellison, Saturday, 25 May 2013 02:59 (ten years ago) link
R.E.M.'s "You Are the Everything" - alternates between I and V and bass keeps pedal on V.
― timellison, Wednesday, 29 May 2013 02:19 (ten years ago) link
(Kind of the reverse of a tonic pedal on I and IV.)
― timellison, Wednesday, 29 May 2013 02:20 (ten years ago) link
"Pleasant Valley Sunday!"
― timellison, Thursday, 30 May 2013 03:04 (ten years ago) link
so many hüsker dü songs have drone notes...Mould's fingers are usually glued to the B and/or E string
― i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 30 May 2013 17:05 (ten years ago) link
Since the term "pedal point" references the organ-music practice of sustaining a low note on the pedal-board, this thread is overdue for something like a Bach toccata. BWV 540 is my favorite example, beginning with a long tonic pedal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7lKynygsE
My favorite moment in the whole toccata is the fake-out, following a long dominant pedal point, where a final cadence would normally occur. It happens around 7:35 in the above video (but roll back to 7:04 to hear it in context with the pedal point that sets it up). Since I'm in music-professor mode -- for which I do apologize -- I have to mention that this device is known as a deceptive cadence,
― Pyotr Ilyich Chai Latte (Paul in Santa Cruz), Friday, 31 May 2013 18:10 (ten years ago) link
OK, Four Tops' "It's the Same Old Song" is in C major. There's that riff at the beginning of the song that goes C-D-E-A, where A is a long note. It rests on A.
Anyway, when the verse starts, it's a C major chord, but the bass keeps playing that riff!
― timellison, Saturday, 8 June 2013 02:59 (ten years ago) link
The Who's ''magic bus'' is a good example, yes? Though I remember hearing somewhere that Entwhistle wasn't exactly in love with it.
― rattled, Saturday, 8 June 2013 07:35 (ten years ago) link
The persistent E minor guitar chord in "London Calling." Bass implies E minor to C in the intro, then E minor to F to G in the verse.
― timellison, Saturday, 3 August 2013 18:12 (ten years ago) link
Good catch.
Recurring intro riff to that tune always sounds Wagnerian to me, like "Ride of the Valkyries" a little although maybe it's something else.
― The O RLY of Everything (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 3 August 2013 18:29 (ten years ago) link
"Everlasting Love" - Robert Knight
― timellison, Sunday, 25 August 2013 05:25 (ten years ago) link
Pedals are everywhere. The 2-note guitar solo in Boredom (E and B) is a pedal point over the main riff, which includes 2 very dissonant chords at the end, F and Eb, then moves down a semitone to chime with the final Bb chord.
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, 25 August 2013 20:11 (ten years ago) link
"Your Mother Should Know" - The first two chords are A minor to F, but it sounds like the piano stays on A minor (making the chord F-A-C-E, a major seventh).
― timellison, Monday, 2 September 2013 03:20 (ten years ago) link
There's a prominent E in the melody, too. You have to wonder whether they realized that.
― timellison, Monday, 2 September 2013 04:23 (ten years ago) link
I have just realised that my very, very favourite thing in music is the literal opposite of the Pedal Point:
Where the guitar holds a one-note drone through the whole chord progression, and the bass goes wandering about, carrying the melody through the chord changes.
Basically, you do that, and I am *yours*.
― Combat Cretaceous Renewal (Branwell Bell), Saturday, 22 February 2014 11:39 (ten years ago) link
that's a pedal point too!
― fact checking cuz, Saturday, 22 February 2014 18:53 (ten years ago) link
Length of Love. Length of fucking Love. Guitar on pedal point, motorik Stereolab beat, Duran Duran bassline.
Just take me, I am yours, guitar pedal points.
*flails helplessly*
― Bipolar Sumner (Branwell Bell), Saturday, 22 February 2014 18:57 (ten years ago) link
TS: pedal point on the tonic vs. pedal point on the fifth
― death and darkness and other night kinda shit (crüt), Saturday, 22 February 2014 19:02 (ten years ago) link
xp I mentioned something I think is similar what's going on in that Interpol song upthread and learned that in jazz circles it has the wonderfully scientific name of 'Contrapuntal Elaboration of Static Harmony', or, if you're a real head, simply CESH.
― Merdeyeux, Saturday, 22 February 2014 19:08 (ten years ago) link
A pedal on 5 when it goes to the ii chord!
― timellison, Sunday, 5 April 2020 23:30 (four years ago) link