Pedal points!

lol

here's a good one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMJsrZkEZZw

Well it's not at the bottom of the bass line- typically you might play 1,3,5,7,9- but it is below everything else.

My music theory teacher once said to me "you jazz guys are always coming up with a chord name for everything -- 'Oh, that's an A flat nine sus 4 sharp five flat nine chord'"

Well a slash chord also specifies that you want that note in the bass, and otherwise you're leaving it up to the people reading the charts

Well it's not at the bottom of the bass line- typically you might play 1,3,5,7,9- but it is below everything else.

I don't know, 9th to me implies that it's at the upper end of the voicing, otherwise it's just a 2 right?

Well a slash chord also specifies that you want that note in the bass, and otherwise you're leaving it up to the people reading the charts

yeah huge difference between writing a chart that says C/D vs. C9

some of it may be influenced by how closely other notes are clustered to it? generally a 9th is going to be above the core triad that defines the chord whereas a 2nd is in a tone cluster with the triad, so if the bass note is an octave below the core chord it makes syntactic sense to me to consider it a 9th to imply the intended spacing of the chord

notation-wise slash notation makes more sense obv

_Well a slash chord also specifies that you want that note in the bass, and otherwise you're leaving it up to the people reading the charts_

yeah huge difference between writing a chart that says C/D vs. C9

I guess one issue with a chord like F/G is that this is best name for it and there is no great way of referring to the type of chord it is without referring to the actual names of the notes.

The other thing is about the terminology of saying something is a second or a ninth. Most of the time when people use the word ninth it implies that it is a higher voice in the chord, as y'all have suggested, and that the (flat)seventh is present, whereas second implies that the seventh(or a sixth filling in for the seventh) is not present. But every once in a while somebody might use either one to simply mean something like 'a G somewhere on an F chord'

Then there is the Steely Dan "Mu Chord" apparently they invented to get a kind of jazz voicing without sounding too much like actual jazz

I guess some would also call that F/G a G9sus4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V9sus4_chord#Jazz_sus_chord

yeah steely dan did not "invent" that

Tell it to this guy: http://www.hakwright.co.uk/steelydan/mu-major.html

Hopefully they came up with the name, at least.

The Beatles' "Getting Better" is an interesting example. The verses are not really a pedal point so much as a drone, I guess, but it's played by nearly all the instruments in the arrangement - bass, guitar, sitar, piano - in different octaves while the vocal melody is very, very busy.

― Huston we got chicken lol (Phil D.), Wednesday, May 1, 2013 8:39 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I can hear the verse melody as modal over a drone, but the chorus melody seems like more of a question. It seems like maybe there's a chord progression, but it's only being suggested by the bass line (while the other instruments are just repeating one chord).

the getting better verse just sounds like it stays on G the whole time to me.

Let's see what Alan Pollack has to say: http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/gb.shtml

I-ii-iii-IV for the chorus sounds OK playing it by yourself, but not so great when played along with the arrangement.

I checked the Wilfrid Mellers book and he doesn't discuss it.

chorus sounds to me like C, Dm/C, G, F

I'd definitely disagree with the G chord. I think the bass has E on the downbeat.

And then D on the downbeat of the next measure, so maybe it's back to the ii chord.

(Making it I-ii-iii-ii instead of I-ii-iii-IV.)

yeah you're right. now that I actually figured out the bass line it just seems like C, Am, Em, F

I-vi-iii-IV

The bass line has A and C in that second bar, but that's not an A minor chord. The notes in the melody are D and F.

I'm listening to the electric piano part in the left channel as well as the bass line and it sure sounds like Am to me. doesn't really matter what the melody is doing imo since melodies use notes outside of the chord all of the time.

But I guess if you want to include the G drone that the guitar is playing in the right channel throughout that whole progression, then it's C, Am7, Em, Fadd9

hmm, maybe it's a Dm. I don't know

I guess I should have just looked at that alan pollack page haha

The Nazz' "Forget All About It" is cool. In the verse, it's i-IV-III. It's not a tonic pedal point under the i and IV chords, but there's a pentatonic run under the iv chord and it has the same effect.

Just realized it's in six-four, too!

And the pedal-like pentatonic thing happens in the extra two beats in the measure.

Chorus of "Listen to What the Man Said" has a bass tonic pedal underneath a ii chord at the beginning and then over I-ii-iii ("That's what the man said/So won't you listen to what the man said?").

R.E.M.'s "You Are the Everything" - alternates between I and V and bass keeps pedal on V.

(Kind of the reverse of a tonic pedal on I and IV.)

"Pleasant Valley Sunday!"

so many hüsker dü songs have drone notes...Mould's fingers are usually glued to the B and/or E string

Since the term "pedal point" references the organ-music practice of sustaining a low note on the pedal-board, this thread is overdue for something like a Bach toccata. BWV 540 is my favorite example, beginning with a long tonic pedal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7lKynygsE

My favorite moment in the whole toccata is the fake-out, following a long dominant pedal point, where a final cadence would normally occur. It happens around 7:35 in the above video (but roll back to 7:04 to hear it in context with the pedal point that sets it up). Since I'm in music-professor mode -- for which I do apologize -- I have to mention that this device is known as a deceptive cadence,

OK, Four Tops' "It's the Same Old Song" is in C major. There's that riff at the beginning of the song that goes C-D-E-A, where A is a long note. It rests on A.

Anyway, when the verse starts, it's a C major chord, but the bass keeps playing that riff!

The Who's ''magic bus'' is a good example, yes? Though I remember hearing somewhere that Entwhistle wasn't exactly in love with it.

The persistent E minor guitar chord in "London Calling." Bass implies E minor to C in the intro, then E minor to F to G in the verse.

Good catch.

Recurring intro riff to that tune always sounds Wagnerian to me, like "Ride of the Valkyries" a little although maybe it's something else.

"Everlasting Love" - Robert Knight

Pedals are everywhere. The 2-note guitar solo in Boredom (E and B) is a pedal point over the main riff, which includes 2 very dissonant chords at the end, F and Eb, then moves down a semitone to chime with the final Bb chord.

"Your Mother Should Know" - The first two chords are A minor to F, but it sounds like the piano stays on A minor (making the chord F-A-C-E, a major seventh).

There's a prominent E in the melody, too. You have to wonder whether they realized that.

I have just realised that my very, very favourite thing in music is the literal opposite of the Pedal Point:

Where the guitar holds a one-note drone through the whole chord progression, and the bass goes wandering about, carrying the melody through the chord changes.

Basically, you do that, and I am *yours*.

that's a pedal point too!

Length of Love. Length of fucking Love. Guitar on pedal point, motorik Stereolab beat, Duran Duran bassline.

Just take me, I am yours, guitar pedal points.

*flails helplessly*

TS: pedal point on the tonic vs. pedal point on the fifth

xp I mentioned something I think is similar what's going on in that Interpol song upthread and learned that in jazz circles it has the wonderfully scientific name of 'Contrapuntal Elaboration of Static Harmony', or, if you're a real head, simply CESH.

A pedal on 5 when it goes to the ii chord!