Why is John Fahey So Boring?

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calling fahey's music soulless is grossly uninformed hyperbole.

Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Dadaismus: That's right I wasn't hip, I was dumb. John Fahey wasn't hip either, he was boring. He still is boring. Can you give me a reason to think he's either hip or boring or both?

valdemar (nubbin), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:13 (eighteen years ago) link

this is one boring-ass thread.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Calling Fahey's music interesting or soulful is overblown overstatement.

valdemar (nubbin), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Ok, more talk about Fahey. It's good that there are people out there who dislike Fahey and the music community isn't all united in some meaningless sort of agreement about his excellence, but I am not in their camp. It's pointless to try and convince anyone to that Fahey is not boring. But I'll try and say a little bit about why I think he's so great.

Fahey produced an impressive variety of stuff and my feelings about it vary. If I'm not in the mood for Hitomi maybe I want to hear his dixieland stuff, or A Raga Called Pat, or The Oregon Capital Inn blah blah - he did a lot of different stuff! Seriously! And yet, maybe this is all my imaginings and projections, but I can sense the same determination behind it, the clear-headed, straight up emotionality and that killer sense of humour. Even (especially) with his writing. More than any one of his styles, or his status as an innovator or whatever, I'm mostly in love with the wonderful personality I feel behind it all. And when I listen to Sun Gonna Shine In My Backdoor Someday Blues I'm not listening to, as he describes it, a bitonal piece played in a John Hurt, ragtime finger-picking pattern style, I'm listening to... I don't know, something much trickier to word. More than any other music I feel this with Fahey. When I first heard him just after I turned 18 I was blown away by how ridiculously intuitive it seemed - it was so obvious, I couldn't believe I ever bothered with other music.

A lot of what's written about Fahey to convince you of his IMPORTANCE talks about how he was the first to do X or an exciting blend of country blues, 20th century classical, indian classical... blah blah. To me at least, it doesn't sound like that and it wouldn't be nearly as interesting if it did. All that seems incidental. The way I hear it (and I appreciate the subjectivity of all this), Fahey is trying to get to SOMETHING and all the technical details are just his way of getting to it. I guess that's it anyway, it's why I feel the same sorts of things listening to such a diverse range of music. It's not the language he's developed, but what he's saying with it.

Ogmor Roundtrouser (Ogmor Roundtrouser), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:20 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.mactavishland.ca/pictures/tumbleweed.jpg

Excelsior Syndrum (noodle vague), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I just threw a rock into the pond, and it made small waves.. then they ended.

I'm so fucking proud of throwing that rock into the pond.

Those little waves just marched around in their own order, but in no way that anyone could have predicted.

Even though the pond got back to equilibrium in about 10 seconds, I have to say that, for a small while, I was fucking make waves in that pond. I threw the rock, the waves happened, they ended, and it was because of me.

Fuck you, pond. I would never hesitate to throw another rock in you.

Dom iNut (donut), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Are we going to debate what soul is again? I hope so. I hope it's also kind of racist and completely uninformed. I want some more of that.

And Leo Kotke rules so watch it, pals.

!~~~~11@@, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:23 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.desert-survivors.org/images/indexpic.jpg

Excelsior Syndrum (noodle vague), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:24 (eighteen years ago) link

I just threw a rock into the pond, and it made small waves.. then they ended.
I'm so fucking proud of throwing that rock into the pond.

Those little waves just marched around in their own order, but in no way that anyone could have predicted.

Even though the pond got back to equilibrium in about 10 seconds, I have to say that, for a small while, I was fucking make waves in that pond. I threw the rock, the waves happened, they ended, and it was because of me.

Fuck you, pond. I would never hesitate to throw another rock in you.

-- Dom iNut (do...), January 10th, 2006.

By the way, that's really beautiful.

~~~~~, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:27 (eighteen years ago) link

http://mmi.tudelft.nl/~charles/Sinai-plain.jpg

Excelsior Syndrum (noodle vague), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:30 (eighteen years ago) link

All music is boring.

o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:34 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm falling aslepe just reading this.

imbidimts, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:39 (eighteen years ago) link

speaking of reading, anyone out there know the date of the SPIN issue with Byron Coley's article on the man? know it's from '94, but not sure of the exact month. i ned a nap.

imbidimts, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Bert Jansch is cool. He's not boring.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:43 (eighteen years ago) link

What's so interesting and hip about a guy who plays repetitious music like he's got no soul?

I'm no one to define soul, and I'm not defending John Fahey, but isn't repetitious music (chanting, drone, prayers, etc.) used all around the world in order for an individual to get in touch with their soul, subconcious, self, inner state, etc.?

QuantumNoise (Justin Farrar), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:51 (eighteen years ago) link

but isn't repetitious music (chanting, drone, prayers, etc.) used all around the world in order for an individual to get in touch with their soul, subconcious, self, inner state, etc.?

Only if you like it it's good

Dom iNut (donut), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:53 (eighteen years ago) link

otherwise, it's boring

Dom iNut (donut), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:53 (eighteen years ago) link

read fahey's books everyone. i don't give a shit if you don't like his music. whatever, fine. but you should read his books! they're good books! they're not willfully nostalgic, "orientalist" or repetitive. they're great. maybe they are willfully nostalgic.. but not in a trite way. great writer. beautiful.

Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 19:21 (eighteen years ago) link

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/troll.jpg

Edward III (edward iii), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago) link

hey valdemar please tell us the other two things you know about music

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago) link

speaking of reading, anyone out there know the date of the SPIN issue with Byron Coley's article on the man? know it's from '94, but not sure of the exact month. i ned a nap.
-- imbidimts (i...), January 10th, 2006.

Does this help?

http://www.furious.com/perfect/fahey/fahey-byron.html
http://www.furious.com/perfect/fahey/fahey-byron2.html

Edward III (edward iii), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

edward, no. according to jason PSF, this is not the SPIN article but something else. not sure if he meant expanded or what, but i'll be damned if i can find the date of pub. for that piece.

imbidimts, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link

That is Coley's Spin article from 94 - but yeah, expanded (I think).

This says 11/94:
http://www.folklib.net/index/discog/f/fahey2_john.shtml

TRG (TRG), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:37 (eighteen years ago) link

OK, so when Chrisgau maintains that the Reprise Fahey is good but the Vanguard stuff "wanders" too much, is he right? (and let's not make this another bashin'-Bob thread, I just wanna know about this specific statement). izze rite?

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Well the first Vanguard LP, Requia is half made up of the botched Requiem For Molly which Fahey disowned although I kind of like bits of it (the deconstruction of California Dreaming with sea lion barks is a glorious Fahey-moment), but the rest of it is great. And the Yellow Princess is pretty widely regarded as one of his better albums and is quite accessible I think.

I'm not as keen on Reprise era Fahey as there's a lot of not particularly inspired trad jazz tunes and what not, although Of Rivers And Religion has plenty of admirers and one or two great tracks (the version of Funeral Song For Mississippi John Hurt is so jerky in parts I worry about whiplash). It makes sense that Christgau would disagree though and if you are aligned with his more populist approach (?) you might too. The Yellow Princess and Of Rivers And Religion are well worth getting though, and The Yellow Princess is being reissued soon with 3 bonus never-before-heard demo tapes including some sort of early version of Fare Forward Voyagers, I believe.

Ogmor Roundtrouser (Ogmor Roundtrouser), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 21:07 (eighteen years ago) link

thx, Ogmor...

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 21:32 (eighteen years ago) link

OK, so when Chrisgau maintains that the Reprise Fahey is good but the Vanguard stuff "wanders" too much, is he right?

no.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 21:36 (eighteen years ago) link

i've recently gotten a big bunch of 80s fahey LPs, and there are at least a handful of good or interesting tracks per album, though sometimes his guitar tones are weird, or the mix is weird. some of em, like Railroad, have really abrasive tones. also, it goes without saying that about a third-half the tracks per album are retreads of ideas he's explored before.

there is massive internal struggle in the john fahey catalog, with sometimes gorgeous and sometimes disastrous results.

Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 21:45 (eighteen years ago) link

I love the Christmas albums... (well, I have two of them.. one that has a red marquee in the middle of marble, which I think is "volume I" but I could be wrong... and the Volume II record)

Dom iNut (donut), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 22:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Funny thing is, the Christmas records are the most boring and abominable of his entire catalogue. The best thing about those records are the songs where there's another guitarist playing. I'd rather listen to an Edison cylinder recording of a broken loom.

As for the other two things I learned about music, here they are:

1. Never trust a musician with any sort of beard

2. Stay away from anything Pitchfork says is good.

Props out to Mr. Roundtrouser: your winsome earnestness has warmed my heart and given me pause. Irony is the badge of the defeated!

valdemar (nubbin), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 23:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Haha, I'm surprised anyone really likes the Christmas albums. However The New Possibility has some of the best examples of "this is sort of ridiculous but I'm going to play it dead seriously" Fahey. I imagine his wry smile. It's funny in the way He Got Better Things For You by The Memphis Sanctified Singers on the Anthology Of American Folk Music is funny; in an inclusive way that makes life seem ridiculous and wonderful and precious at the same time.

Ogmor Roundtrouser (Ogmor Roundtrouser), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 00:10 (eighteen years ago) link

typedef union { tBeard fBeard; tPitchforkReview fPositiveReview; } tValdemarHugglez

#define NUM_VALDEMAR_HUGGLEZ 2112

tValdemarHugglez* pValdemarHugglez = new tValdemarHugglez[NUM_VALDEMAR_HUGGLEZ];

for (int i = 0; i < NUM_VALDEMAR_HUGGLEZ; ++i)
{

pValdemarHugglez[i].fBeard = g_BeardDatabase[BEARD_DATABASE_INDEX + i];

pValdemarHugglez[i].fPitchforkReview = g_PitchforkReviewDatabase[POSITIVE_REVIEWS][PFORK_POZ_REVIEW_DATABASE_INDEX + i];

printf("Valdemar loves the %s beard and thinks the %s review is groovy %lt;3\n", pValdemarHugglez[i].fBeard.GetStr(), pValdemarHugglez[i].fPositiveReview.GetStr());

}

for (int i = 0; i < NUM_VALDEMAR_HUGGLEZ; ++i)
{

printf("I <3 valdemar!!!! lol omg !!!!!1\n");
}

printf("Goodbye, world\n");
g_fucked = 1;
free(NULL);

Dom iNut (donut), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 00:12 (eighteen years ago) link

If you were a real man, you'd have written that in COBOL.

valdemar (nubbin), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 00:21 (eighteen years ago) link

What is ridiculous about playing "Oh Come All Ye Faithful" and stuff? It's not like he was playing "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer."

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 00:24 (eighteen years ago) link

I hope you're being facetious Tim Ellison. He not only played that one, he also played the "Skater's Waltz" and "White Christmas". The abortions just don't stop with him...

valdemar (nubbin), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 00:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Obviously there's nothing inherently ridiculous about playing any of those songs, but I detect a real sly sense of humour in the way he plays them. I mean, syncopated hymns! For pretty much the entire album. I don't think it's just a joke or even primarily a joke, but listening to the amazing long slides up to the high notes on Silent Night brings tears to my eyes and makes me think everything is hilarious and magnificent. If only I could feel like that all the time (and if only the whole album was that good). It doesn't sound like he's making fun of these pieces, he's celebrating them, enjoying them, elevating them... it's like his version of Waltzing Matilda on Live In Tasmania. The way he plays it is GREAT. Waltzing Matilda is a fantastic tune, and his rendition is reverent and it makes you take it seriously and notice how good it is. Everytime I hear it I'm convinced it's one of my favourite tunes. One of Fahey's greatest talents to my mind, was the care and sympathy with which he would play tunes. He was so good at arranging tunes, composing intros and outros that would sometimes dwarf the actual piece, and also really good at medleys (later on anyway), something that doesn't usually interest me at all. Perhaps "ridiculous" gives people the wrong idea, but it is certainly amusing and smile-inducing, for me anyway.

Ogmor Roundtrouser (Ogmor Roundtrouser), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 02:39 (eighteen years ago) link

so, anyway, john fahey is so boring because he's japanoise.


...

i wonder if there are ILM trolls who just try to bait me sometimes, but i realize that would be impossible.

Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 02:45 (eighteen years ago) link

valdemar's criticisms here (technically proficient, boring, soulless, defanged, etc.) apply more to leo kottke IMO

HAKKEBOFFER (eman), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:01 (eighteen years ago) link

For a second I thought you were saying my criticisms were "technically proficient, boring, soulless, defanged, etc." and I was going to get steamin' mad. As for Kottke, never heard of him.

valdemar (nubbin), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:27 (eighteen years ago) link

Here is a John Fahey track I talked about somewhere above. It is from I Remember Blind Joe Death and it is "Nightmare/Summertime." It's not boring. It's interesting rhythmically, and his phrasing is brutally funny. Love the cathartic feel as you approach 5 minutes in.

Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:47 (eighteen years ago) link

God, it sounds like a mongoloid wearing gloves is playing it. This is exactly what I'm talking about: all these predictable gimmicks he uses like ending his phrases by slowing down, that incessant ponderous bass-line, very little sense of dynamics, flaccid chord voicings. Not sure what you mean by catharsis, the thing just peters out. Here is a guitarist who has some talent.

valdemar (nubbin), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 07:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Malmsteen wipes Snooks.

Then again Tom Lehrer wipes Malmsteen.

Game over, man.

Dom iNut (donut), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 07:35 (eighteen years ago) link

I've never heard Malmsteen play "High Society". Do you have an mp3 of him playing that?

valdemar (nubbin), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 07:39 (eighteen years ago) link

The second Christmas album is easily the best thing I've ever heard by him, side one anyway and yes the duets are the best parts.

Burr (Burr), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 13:55 (eighteen years ago) link

I've never heard Malmsteen play "High Society". Do you have an mp3 of him playing that?

I recorded him playing that in my 2-inch analog tape studio in Hawaii... we did lots of coke. It was rock.

(done spray-bottling Fahey fans' picnic yet? You've gotten the towels all moist now. For shame. I'm hardly even a huge Fahey fan here, so I found this all kinda funny.)

Dom iNut (donut), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 14:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Not as bad when I recorded Tom Lehrer performing his satirical piano revue which was about all the great folk legends.. that guy demanded crack enemas. We're talkin' Stevie Nicks shit now. That was fuckin' nasty.

Dom iNut (donut), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 15:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Seriously. Lay of Fahey. He's quirky, he's obv. talented, and he's willing to do something original. If you don't like him, don't listen to him.

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 15:22 (eighteen years ago) link

ah so it's basically a reissue of The Mill Pond 2x7", I actually like his noise pieces esp those on City Of Refuge

out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Friday, 30 June 2023 18:29 (nine months ago) link

When do the lost β€˜77 sessions get their proper release? I can’t remember what the story was with them but at least one track was issued on Red Cross.

Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 11 July 2023 12:43 (nine months ago) link

four months pass...

https://freshairarchive.org/guests/john-fahey

???

whoa, weird

global tetrahedron, Monday, 13 November 2023 16:29 (five months ago) link

πŸ‘€πŸ‘€

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Monday, 13 November 2023 20:10 (five months ago) link

Ok, he is so wrong about the SF Symphony. At time of this interview the new symphony hall was less than one month from opening (due to the $5M gift from Louise Davies), but the symphony itself absolutely existed, sharing space with the opera/ballet at War Memorial. But with John I suspect facts are more of an illusion.

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Monday, 13 November 2023 23:59 (five months ago) link

the transfiguration of terry gross

tylerw, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 19:36 (five months ago) link

I Remember Blind Daniel Schur

Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 21 November 2023 01:18 (five months ago) link

wow, anyone heard this Finland-only release from 1968?

https://www.discogs.com/release/12204209-John-Fahey-Finlandia

out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 26 November 2023 22:00 (four months ago) link


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