― Michael Collie (Sans Sushi), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 21:33 (eighteen years ago) link
She wasn't entirely naked. There was some kind of scarf thingie draped across her lap.
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 21:35 (eighteen years ago) link
The most relevant fact about Liz and commercialism is that although there isn't a strict decline in record sales (the last one did better - albeit only slightly - than the third one, for instance), there IS an astonishing relationship between her sales and what her records cost to make and promote. If "Exile" was a 1 to 1 relationship, than "Whipsmart" was about 1 to 15, "Whitechocolate" about 1 to 30 and "Liz Phair" about 1 to 100. In other words, the more dollars they throw at her, the less the proportionate return. The last record barely broke even. You could expect that to some extent, as "Exile" was so cheap, but the enormity of the discrepancy is what's really interesting.
Liz was never particularly into "indie" rock or even music in general and always held Madonna (not Kim Gordon or whoever) up as her musical and career role model. I don't find Liz's "direction" to be very good or even remotely interesting, but I can see why the indie cred argument bugs her; it never was her scene. On the other hand, she firmly believes that a Madonna-style "Material Girl" candidness about her own ambition will work for her ultimately, in the sort of postmodern way it did for Madonna - despite the fact that she's just really not in the same league as Madonna in just about any sense. And of course, it's been done to death.
― Dee Xtrovert (dee dee), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 21:38 (eighteen years ago) link
It seems like she's gained new fans to make up for those crying betrayal. It will hurt though when she realizes that these new fans are just as fickle as the indie fans.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 21:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 21:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:49 (eighteen years ago) link
(xpost to Matos)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:51 (eighteen years ago) link
(I was one of those fans "betrayed" by Whitechocolatespaceegg who now thinks it's her best album)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:57 (eighteen years ago) link
We can't have that. It's too direct a sentiment. We must remove the guitar from it.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:58 (eighteen years ago) link
(xpost)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:59 (eighteen years ago) link
x-post, Matos, what don't you like about the songs (as opposed to the sound)? Too obvious in form? Too happy?
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:00 (eighteen years ago) link
I still think it does everything it's supposed to.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:08 (eighteen years ago) link
Reading this makes me want to listen to Agoraphobic Nosebleed at full volume, while watching looped 9/11 videos.
― ugly and mean, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:12 (eighteen years ago) link
I really like "Little Digger" maybe because it reachs a little further. Which is kind of what I find amazing about Phair--she writes really well when she's tweaking cliches, or avoiding them as much as she can. She does it without it feeling forced or awkward. It's a real gift. And I think on that album she just kowtowed to it. As an excercise it's really brilliant, probably. As a bunch of songs, not so much.
xpost: Pink's a good example, actually! I believed her cliches for whatever reason. I didn't believe Liz's. Go figure.
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link
x-post
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link
something about seeing her at the EB seems really appropriate
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 16 March 2018 00:04 (six years ago) link
To dip back into the above convo from four years ago -- when you compare the two "Exile" albums song-by-song, it seems pretty clear that hers was indeed conceived at l ask loosely as a response to the Stones LP (musically, maybe even more than lyrically)... it's very impressive. She was probably indeed just trolling when she brushed it off in that first radio interview; or (more likely) didn't want to invite her album being saddled with the association at that early stage, and later was okay embracing it when it was clear that it wouldn't be portrayed as a negative?
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Friday, 16 March 2018 05:06 (six years ago) link
("at I ask" = "at least". Autocorrect is killing me lately.)
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Friday, 16 March 2018 05:07 (six years ago) link
Then again, a lot of those songs are on the Girlysound tapes (not tracking the Stones album), so I dunno. Maybe it was half serendipity, the way the parallels fell into place.
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Friday, 16 March 2018 05:09 (six years ago) link
That SPIN article was really interesting & revealing; really cool to hear about how that album was constructed
― the man from P.O.R.L.O.C.K. (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 16 March 2018 23:10 (six years ago) link
Also
Her guitar tunings – her guitar playing, period – are mad underrated. I can listen to "Explain It To Me" ad infinitum.― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, June 27, 2013 3:12 PM (four years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, June 27, 2013 3:12 PM (four years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This is super otm (& not solely bcz "Explain" is my OPO from the album)
― the man from P.O.R.L.O.C.K. (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 16 March 2018 23:12 (six years ago) link
Been playing her first three albums a lot since her show on Friday. This track is still a favorite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHqOJwgbpxo
FWIW, I also saw Richard Linklater's Before trilogy yesterday - I was surprised how disappointing the third film seemed when viewed immediately after the first two. It still had a good deal of promising ideas, but they give way to a pair of climactic scenes that feel much too prosaic and much too narrow - packed with dramatic fireworks but with nothing new to say. Liz's song suggests a whole lot more in its two minutes and 53 seconds.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 28 November 2023 05:36 (five months ago) link
^I revisited Whitechocolatespaceegg last week, and too was struck by how good & precisely worded that song is.
― This field is required (morrisp), Tuesday, 28 November 2023 06:34 (five months ago) link