'Jazz': Search and Destroy

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (106 of them)
For those who want to know about those 'flatted sevenths and ninths', 'The Birth of Bebop' (forget the author) has all those technical details about what Diz and Bird did differently from their predecessors.

tarden, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Francis Davis's book on the blues is great (his two essays collections are pretty good, too, Outcats, and [forget the other]). Schuller is great in musicological terms, if you steel yourself against his occasional idiotic anti-pop huffing (he has a go at Boy George somewhere in the Swing book! So fuck him!!) The Litweiler book The Freedom Principle mentioned above. Val W's As Serious is anecdotally brilliant, if dour: she doesn't really do the music-qua-music side, though.

The Cook/Morton collections are good, but, yes, frustrating (unless you maybe get them ALL, a mad idea).

I like Graham Lock's Braxton books — OK, disclaimer: piece by me in the essays collection, Mixtery — and his book of his own jazz essays. I believe he has a Sun Ra book out currently also.

Has anyone mentioned the Imamu? Leroi Jones/Amiri Baraka's BLUES PEOPLE is still his masterpiece, before he got (a) all CultNat, and (b) Maoist...

Has Brian Case ever done a collection? His stuff in Maker/NMe in the 70s was SO FANTASTIC: great writer lost to booze, alienation and ennui...

mark s, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

If author of The Birth of Bebop = Ross Russell, his musicology is totally wack.

mark s, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Amiri Baraka's (Leroi Jones) 'Blues People' and Ben Sidran's 'Black Talk' (both excellent jazz books) are often quite cheap from Canongate's (the publishers) website. (canongate.net i think)

Also 'Hear Me Talkin' to Ya' edited by Nat Hentoff and Nat Shapiro, (from about 54?) is really good - gets up to bebop and the early avant-garde, plus plenty of interesting material on early jazz and life in New Orleans etc, something which I hoped to get from 'Jazz' (the series) but which it failed to provide. The book is entirely paragraphs from interviews with a wide range of jazz musicians, all pieced together to make a fascinating read. Definitely better to hear things from the original sources and not what Wynton thinks 80 years later.

m jemmeson, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Mark - it's somebody called Scott Deveaux. More reliable?

tarden, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Tarden: dunno, but my guess bound to be. Russell = Charlie Parker's first biographer. I think he's probably OK on anecdotes and stuff — he was there, a fan at the time — but just rubbish (unfortunately oft-repeated rubbish) on the technical stuff.

Brian Priestley's JAZZ ON RECORD is pretty good. Priestley is way cool: an old-skool Brit modern jazzer who RATES GARY NUMAN!

mark s, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Some of the transcripts from that PBS website were interesting - thanks for the link Josh - and the huge number of typos (obv. made by some poor non-jazzing transcriber) raised the odd smile (Miles Davis' 'Felix De Kilimanjaro' prob. my fave.)

Gidins comes across as a reasonable sort in his interview - last night I read the relevant passages from the Meltzer comp where R. calls him a 'pigfucker' - and has this useful point to make in relation to Mark Pitchfork's post - "It's worth remembering that the avant garde is the longest lived movement in the history of jazz. It's been with us for 40 years now, much longer than swing or bebop or even dixieland. And it's stronger now that it's ever been, with more places in which it's performed than ever before. So while it always has a narrow audience in terms of size, it has an extremely devoted audience."

Stanley Crouch, in his interview, makes the amazing claim that pretty much the only avant jazz worth hearing is by people who at some point or other played w/Ornette Coleman ('cos Ornette swung and had tunes...)

Andrew L, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

For an uber-trad viewpoint, Philip Larkin's 'All What Jazz' - guy hates everything beyond Muggsy Spanier. "'Ascension' is astounding in its ugliness" etc.

tarden, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Yeah, Crouch is full of amazing claims. Read "On the Corner: The Selling Out of Miles Davis" sometime, where he dismisses everything after In a Silent Way (inclusive), basically out of hand - and other choice critical judgments as well.

I think I've read an article or two by Nat Hentoff, but lots of his liner notes, of course, he apparently having written one third of all jazz liner notes in the 50s and 60s. I imagine his other jazz writing would be good as well.

Josh, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Re Larkin: Yes, but I've read Val Wilmer — of ALL people — in defence of Larkin, as of c.1955-63, maybe: one of the VERY VERY few portals by which jazz was allowed into wider cultural discussion in the UK (exiled from all radio = the BBC). And rubbish tho he probably is on any jazz after c.1935, is he rubbish on e.g. Bechet? Actually what he is is uber-indiefan, his indie being 20s jazz: his prog and/or disco being the rest.

mark s, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

What about Eric Hobsbawm? Better or worse than Larkin?

the pinefox, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

What about Greg Tate on Miles electric period? Is supposed to be a great essay, can't find it anywhere alas. Stanley C****ch aka Mr. Afro-Fascism, ah why waste any words on that banjo-loving geezer or for that matter Wynton M. (I just can hear Miles whispering "shallow backwards looking motherfucker" ;)

Omar, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Tate's Miles thing is collected in _Flyboy in the Buttermilk_ (Isn't it?)

Crouch fascinates me, cuz he's a bully and a conman and a STRONG STRONG writer and — historically — the actual link between Baraka and Tate (renegade disciple to the first; warped guru to the second). Pinefox: I think Hobsbawm is pretty lame (plus he wrote all his crit under a pseudonym — Francis Newton? — so that the more anti-American Comrades wouldn't spot it and reprimand him...)

mark s, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"Although [Billie Holiday] had a tiny vocal range, she made every song she sang her own—in part, by singing slightly behind the beat." Huh?! Did someone even read that back after writing it?

[usual stuff abt hard living/drinking/ cursing Billie, partner of both sexes blah blah] "... but out of it all she made unforgettable art—and would eventually become the Most Important Singer in Jazz." So why "but"? How "art"? What mean "important"? To who? How is "most" measured? Compared to Armstrong?

The actual musical contrast between Benny Goodman and Count Basie (that John Hammond is so astounded by) — can you actually HEAR it any more (I mean in what they're choosing to play)?

The avant garde issue is almost a red herring, I think: you have this fabulous music (I love love love Bunny Berigan), and yet the stuff the writers/talking heads are expecting you to get excited about is all like really lame ancient ad-copy. They don't say what gets THEM juiced about it: they tell you what they condescendingly assume will impress/amaze YOU, and it's like vacant fuck-off nothings. "Music from the very soil of America."

mark s, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

mark it may be oversell, but I think that the weirdly nationalistic tone of the copy flows naturally from the doc's form. I mean, he's using the same font for the intertitles that he used in the Civil War, the same butterfly-on-a-pin "Tomb of the Unknown Soldier" treatment. It kind of writes itself.

I find it quite odd that Ken Burns has left his style unchaged since the "Civil War" . Does all history deserve identical treatment? I want to see "Ken Burns: Techno." Same intertitles, all black and white photographs, tons of makeup. He could get Derrick May to play the Wynton Marsalis part - "techno... from the very oily pavement of Detroit." cripes it almost sounds possible.

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Well, his style might have remained static not to suit his twisted mad-historian vision - could be he's just bad. ;)

Josh, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Tracer: It's actually not the nationalism that I'm bothered by (I mean: that last quote is TRUE, it's just, on its own, so SO-WHAT TRUE, if you see what I mean). It's the pin- headed glib upfulness of it all: even the way racism is dealt with strikes me as incredibly complacent.

Like I said up-thread, I really liked _The Civil War_: but yes, part of the reason was that its form was in a ey way appropriate to an American sensibility of that era, the Cult of the mid-Century Dead, the Second Great Awakening in the Time of the New Necropolis (and that was BEFORE the war/ Gettysburg etc etc). "I did not stop to [??] with death/and so he stop'd for me"

Like I said, I think it's a nine-day success which signals a collapse and an end, rather than a revivification. For one thing, given the bully-pulpit they've co-opted for themselves, the actual intellectual content ON THEIR OWN TERMS, of what Crouch- Marsalis deliver, is SO WEAK. I don't mean boohoo no Braxton = boohoo no substance, I mean, if [x] does thinks Billie is the Most Important Singer in Jazz, what does that actually mean TO [X]? What are the specifics that get him moist?

I wanted to get into some of those photos themselves and talk out the odd little things that were never discussed, the blind-spot elements which push a bit against the cliché-grain of the narrative (the sweat under Gene Krupa's arms).

It's the middle of the night. I have to sleep.

mark s, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

("jazz cliché: a level", anyone? it's more like a 'd', but that story 'jazz' repeats about how benny goodman got to play clarinet 'cos he was the littlest goodman off to music classes and so got given the littlest instrument - that one kills me. mark's got a couple more plausible 'a's above, maybe? billy h sang behind the beat, eg ('cos she was LOADED, right?).)

jon bywater, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Jazz A-level cliche - "Self-indulgent it might have been, but Return to Forever's 'Romantic Warrior' had a wild, audacious spirit that you won't find in today's more circumspect, style-conscious times."

tarden, Friday, 15 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

go tarden!

ok, i was only kidding, but how about "although critically disparaged at the time, miles davis's heavy fusion was, of course, truly the way ahead for jazz, and the truth of this promise is bourne out by new album by [whichever terrible contemporary dance music crossover saxophonist]...."

jon bywater, Friday, 15 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Kenny G is a disgrace to the legacy of Spyro Gyra and Chuck Mangione.

tarden, Friday, 15 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I think there are essentially 2 kinds of docs, the kind that only ask questions (v. rare - maybe "We, the Gleaners" or "Fast Cheap and Out of Control") and the kind that propose answers. "Jazz" is mainly interested in answers, which is fine -- I think most art is an attempt to solve a difficulty, or piece a meaning out of our national life, the way one might puzzle out a dream in the morning. Calling it "art" allows it to be fluid and adapt to what is necessarily un-fleshed-out - if it was all articulated already there'd be no point to the doc. The artist arrives at an answer in so many ways - every choice, from photo tinting to copyediting to what to exclude is made with a goal in mind, however subconscious - all attempting to answer an unarticulated question, a difficulty in the material. When Ellington's quoted as saying that jazz is America's classical music, I got a kind of satiated feel from "Jazz", like it had finally achieved its goal - the difficulty as "Jazz" sees it is maybe to "restore Jazz to its rightful place in American cultural - and world musical - history." This goal's irrelevant since jazz needs nothing of the sort so if they succeed on those terms it's like "so what?" and if they fail - which I think they do - then I guess you glean what you can, take your pleasure oppositionally blah blah.

They do try to sex it up a little too, but never get to the meat of it, of what made kids lose their minds, of what made musicians and dilettantes rush to each others' houses with stacks of 45s, what made people cram into clubs, what got Gene Krupa stinky. Is it because that vitality is directly counter to their nationalistic hagiography project? You know, I hear old live Charlie Parker recordings from small clubs and the crowd is going BANANAS. What was that?

Tracer Hand, Friday, 15 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Readers may not be aware that Ken Burns' script was the best of the bunch when the contract for this series went out to tender. In my usual diligent fashion I have unearthed excerpts from some of the alternative screenplays which were touted as possibles, and all of which bring a completely different angle to our understanding of jazz and its place in, and contribution to, 20th-century American neo- humanist society.

1. Episode 428 of the "Fire Music" strand: "Studio Rivbea: The Consolidation Years" written by Wen Batson.

April 1976 was a busy month for Sirone. His great sonorous rat- infested bass was the lynchpin of "People's Republic" which placed the Revolutionary Ensemble at the centre of human development. They knew society and attempted to mould it to my liking. But they ultimately failed, as all "free" music did, as indeed all "jazz" did, as its sickening umbilical link to recognisable notes and compromise Republican-voting 4/4 rhythms (albeit suggested only) denied its potential to dent the world and reverse the tanks in the way that the Zappa/Terry Bozzio torrential duet on "My Plimsoll Done Got Bitchy (Movement 16: Crystal Prequel)" opened up a new vista of communal community which could only be sneezed at by a capitalist nose drenched in treacherous red. I was 14 when "Grand Wazoo" came out, you know (entire ILM personnel writes: now come on, Carlin, you did this routine last week. Do something different!). During one of my many prestigious exclusive coffee mornings with the apex of Western, not to mention Eastern, music, Derek Bailey, he humorously biffed me on my socialist bonce for uttering the dread word "jazz." How I howled! But not as deep and sonorous a howl as Frank Wright on Center of the World Vol 96. October 1977 was a busy month for Cecil McBee . . .

2. "Eye LUV Jazz!" by Jupitus Maconie.

Introduction: "Take Five."

TARA MARIELLA VOICEOVER SLUT: Jazz? Mmm . . . niiiice! (intoned as if this were a mindblowing and original insight, much like stout Cortez atop the Darien peak). No tunes! Striped bowlers! What's the real story? Yeah, right!

STUART "WRY" MACONIE: Jazz!! What was that all about? Eh? Eh?

UNHEARD OF DULWICH COMEDIENNE: When I woz like five, yeh, my dad made me listen to like Miles Davis and stuff. I wanted the Osmonz! YEH DONNY! I wanted a Raleigh chopper!

Cut to stock footage of Miles and Coltrane doing "So What." Lasts all of two seconds before being pointlessly intercut with excerpts from "On The Buses" and a floating plastic bag.

WRY "MACONIE" STUART: Albert Ayler! What was that all about? It was a bit like Nora Batty consummating with Quackers out of Tich and Quackers with Julio Cortazar looking onward before turning into a pomegranate peacock! Eh? Eh? Thing is I actually know about this stuff and listen to it! But you want dumb - look at the ratings! So I'm laughing AT you, plebs! Eh? Eh?

(ad infinitesimalum)

3. Erm, that's it, 'cos it's been a long week. "The Invisible Band"! What's THAT all about? Eh? Eh?

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 15 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

re what Tarden asks abt Wynton on the Creativity-Archetypes thread (does he see himself as Completing the Arc of his Percursors, and thus ALL JAZZ) I just had this thought. His prob re Armstrong is that he actually really truly venerates him as much LA actually gobsmackingly deserves. The history of jazz is a history of foax thinking they could do Armstrong too (only here-now and better): well, in a way "they" were all wrong and Marsalis is currect, yet their error is Jazz as a Living Fighting Thing (its good), and Marsalis's objective humility is sad rubbish. (He's still the classically trained player starry-eyed that Satchmo, w/ no middleclass background, is a BILLION TIMES BETTER THAN HE MARSALIS CAN EVER BE wtf).

I once read Branford M, much the more likeable of the brothers (a Yes fan!!), being more sensible about this issue: re horrible poverty and oppression producing the blues, and black America's escape from the worst of same in the 50s as a damage to the music...

I think Marsalis is like Eric Burdon: he "wants to be black"

mark s, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Like everybody, I've got about 20 Miles Davis records (don't listen to the 70s stuff much, sounds like a swamp, prefer the Williams/Hancock era) and 0 by Marsalis, and mildly dislike the latter anyway, no big deal. Still, the incident in Vancouver where Miles threw Wynton off the stage - not for any 'artistic differences', but because Miles (the questing iconoclast who 'changed music five or six times') thought Marsalis "WASN'T SHOWING THE APPROPRIATE RESPECT TO A MAN OLD ENOUGH TO BE HIS GRANDFATHER"!!! (This from someone who listed all the players he respected, leaving out Armstrong. Questioned on this, he replied "Oh yeah, Pops."
Maybe Marsalis is like one of those accountants whose name is River Sunshine Godhead, or like Saffy in 'Ab Fab', someone feeling so disgusted(or abandoned)by their wild, free-spirited 'father' that they rebel by going in the opposite direction, going ultra- conservative. "Papa Was A Rollin' Stone", and when he died, Marsalis was left with Stanley Crouch.
The plot thickens even further when you consider Miles' intemperate reaction to Marsalis' brother Branford leaving the Davis band to join Sting.

tarden, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

WM's dad = minor not-famous musician, no? Not sure/memory = fucked, as I keep discovering. But point taken re inverted rebellion.

WM and Miles are both MAJOR mindgamers: no room for em both on the same stage. I doubt the given reason for the incident = the real reason — or that MD cd even articulate the "real" reason. WM disses MD via respect for LA: intolerable to MD cz it thows up HIS psychic relationship to LA, in terms — in late age — of success and failure and achieved achievement. The "Pops" remark — esp.in oedipal combo with the name "Pops" — sort of makes my point: you don't "forget" Armstrong (of all people) because he's just competely minor to you (like you might forget, I dunno, Ian Carr), you forget him because if you thoght abt him too clearly, you'd just shut the fuck up, toss yr trumpet in the garbage and go to Med School.

Actually, if we simply simplify the Jazz Arc to Pops-Miles-Wynton, and just dig about at their emotional relationship PLUS career twists PLUS personnel marginalia, we'd get a REAL INTERESTING better history of jazz as a popular/modernist form, what went right, what went wrong, where to now.

mark s, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I like the 'oedipal' comment - like the old joke, "Last night I made a Freudian slip at the dinner table...I meant to say, 'Dad, you could please pass the salt', but what slipped out was 'Dad, I'll never get over you dismissing my playing as 'Chinese music', motherfucker.'"

tarden, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Keith Jarrett, with his jeremaiads on "electric viruses" destroying music - another Davis 'son' being prodigal by being defiantly dutiful to 'tradition', or just the kid who runs off to be an eco-warrior but actually stays up the fucking tree for YEARS until people take him equally seriously?

tarden, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Mark - I know you're a bit disparaging toward Nick Kent, and why not, but didn't you find it weird in that interview with MD where MD spends one paragraph savaging Darrel Jones for joining Sting, then the very next paragraph praising Sting and being equally savage towards anybody who disagrees on Sting's merit?

tarden, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Or was that Branford Marsalis? (Either way, criticism of Jones would be implied criticism of B Marsalis, so it's irrelevant).
Oh but it doesn't stop there! In that same interview, MD blasts Jagger ("Shaking a skinny white ass trying to be Wynonie Harris - throw that shit in the river and watch it sink! Fuck that shit!") - the very same Jagger who later replaced Bill Wyman with...DARREL JONES!
Incidentally how do you spell his Christian name?

tarden, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Right — and Kent so wants to be Down with the Maaan that he doesn't even (publicly) twitch, either time, right? Not to defend Sting (OK, maybe fair enough), then not to attack him when MD flips, and NOT TO DEFEND JAGGER. Excuse me, Nick, does the phrase "elegantly wasted" not ring a bell? (Poss no entirely fair: as rid myself of Dark Stuff ages ago and had frankly forgot it even included a Davis piece — but yes, I hate Kent cuz of oodles of v.obviously Unearned Attitude re Byronic rebel-stance).

Daryl? Daryll? [Consults FIELDS OF GOLD: the Best of Sting 1984-1994, to discover HAHA absolutely no musician credits given!! That'll teach those fusion fatheads to whore themselves to the Man]

(Man != Maaan)

I am now listening to Fields of Fire. Yes I am.

mark s, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Fire = Gold

mark s, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Jazz Cliche, A-level - "Upon first exposure to Ornette Coleman, most found his music difficult, incoherent, even the work of a con man. Even now, many bitterly resent him, holding him responsible for consigning 'jazz' to the unpopular realm of academic, esoteric music forever. Yet, even his few defenders failed to detect the heart of this strange new music - the down-home gospel and blues Ornette was steeped in, from his days playing gritty roadhouses and barbecue joints, honking like King Curtis and duck-walking like Chuck Berry."

tarden, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

This is an absolutely universal cliche / critical standpoint (lots of the cliches are actually v.defensible) - Ayler got it too and tons upon tons of rock people. Boils down to: what matters with [noisy artist] is the song roots, not the noises. Used well - like most of these A-Level critical reverses - it sheds a fresh light on records.

Tom, Saturday, 16 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Conclusive proof — direct from the cultural frontline — that Marsalis et al won the attle but lost the war.

OK: I was at a screening of Pokémon 3: The Spell of the Unknown this morning. The short shown with it — Pikachu and the Pichus — is set in old cartoon New York (Pikachu has a kind of countryboy adventure in the Big City: lifts, alleys, airshafts, flagpoles, you get the picture. The entire 20- minute work is soundtracked not with computer blings and John Williams knock- off, but with CLASSIC HOT SWING!!

mark s, Sunday, 17 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

So anyone read that new book by Paul Tingen, 'Miles Beyond: The Electric Explorations of Miles Davis 1967-1991'? If so, any good? Too dry? Or filled with wild speculation?

Omar, Thursday, 21 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Jordan is reading it right now. Perhaps he'll post and tell you what he thinks.

Josh, Thursday, 21 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Watched the programme again last night to see if it had improved or my perception changed. Sadly, no. Wynton M still babbling on irrelevantly, and voiceover saying something like 'Sonny Rollins released an LP called SAX COLOSSUS. And he indeed embodied the second word of its title'. The non-stop music itself is still tasteful, talented and undifferentiated to my ears. Can't tell one jazz record or performer from another.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

My guess = it gets worse, pinefox, not better. I *cannot bear* the narration, which is as pompously meaningless as you say. At least the tween-war years were full of stuff which required being placed back on the table, somewhat. Postwar jazz has its – yes, tasteful and safe — place already, and this just reads off the available promo leaflets.

mark s, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It's taken me a good deal of listening to be able to tell players apart, Pinefox. I wouldn't count on being able to based on Wynton reading liner notes at you. (But Saxophone Colossus IS a fine record.)

Josh, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Last episode last night. It really was bizarre they suddenly skipped over 20 or 30 years, after the endless rambling through previous periods. But that criticism has already been made.

The programme did not leave me any better informed or more enthusiastic about jazz. That's not necessarily a bad thing, or the prog's fault. Possibly I am ineducable. But one thing did stay with me beyond the bombast - and beyond the soloists and blowers and wild men.

I loved the last few seconds, in which Duke Ellington said goodbye, as it were. That seemed right - as though he had been orchestrating it all. I don't know owt about Duke E. 'Take The A Train' was played countless times during the series (I saw it on the credits over and over again, often x2 for one episode), but I still have no idea whatsoever how it goes. I know more about 'Z Train' than 'Take The A Train'. (Has anyone ever heard 'Z Train'? For that matter, has anyone ever heard 'Take The A Train'??) Still, the thing is, Ellington somehow seemed more compelling as a figure, to me, than many of the others. Perhaps because he came across as not a Musician (though I daresay he was a great one), not a Soloist, but a Composer - an organizer. In pop I am attracted to the idea of the figure who conceptualizes, plans, organizes (the Arranger, to use a Joyceans' term?), then delegates and deploys, gives the plan to someone else and goes off to hide behind it. Maybe it's even a Flaubertian- impersonality schtick, this, the omnipotent artist hidden behind their handiwork. (Bacharach?)

I daresay that Duke E was not really the kind of figure I am trying to describe. But I got a feeling that he was a wee bit closer to it than some of the up-front soloist types. A writer, a thinker, a planner, a leader - that was the image I got. And I like that, and I took away a small fascination with this fellow. I appreciate, though, that jazz folks may think I've got it all wrong.

the pinefox, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

No, that seems pretty apt. I don't own much Ellington - and I don't own any of his small group playing where he might come more to the fore - but I always think of him as a composer / leader / whatever in my head. I suppose I put him in his own mental category, really, because I don't know much about other notable jazz musicians who maintained large groups, played, wrote and arranged the music, etc. Sun Ra doesn't count, he gets his own category too. :)

But having said that: I think the program focused a bit too much on some of the players' roles as soloists, to the detriment of their other qualities. Charles Mingus definitely fits the description you gave, despite (I think) being much more prominent as a soloist than Duke. (This makes sense, of course, because Duke was such an influence on Mingus.) A lot of other musicians known for being soloists played big roles in other areas, as well - it just helps to have more familiarity with them to see how. Probably not on the scale of Ellington, but then his band was big and so there are a lot of different things for a mastermind to mastermind.

Josh, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

(pulls tattered pamphlet from hip pocket) Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys do a rockin version of Take the A Train, with a lovely little country stomp to it. It is said that Wills admired Ellington no end, and tried to implement his style of leadership into folk/country/swing/blues out West.

Ellington was an extraordinary piano player tho, and I've heard a lot of folks dis him in that regard - "oh, he was more of an arranger or composer" - may be true but his expressiveness and emotion at the keyb est nonpareil. "Money Jungle" is maybe my favorite all-round jazz album for Ellington's lyricism in the teeth of Roach's jagged snare assaults and Mingus's obstinacy.

Tracer Hand, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

One jazz thing I like: the titles. 'Money Jungle'!

the pinefox, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one year passes...
*revive*

Cozen (Cozen), Monday, 20 January 2003 13:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

''WRY "MACONIE" STUART: Albert Ayler! What was that all about? It was a bit like Nora Batty consummating with Quackers out of Tich and Quackers with Julio Cortazar looking onward before turning into a pomegranate peacock! Eh? Eh? Thing is I actually know about this stuff and listen to it! But you want dumb - look at the ratings! So I'm laughing AT you, plebs! Eh? Eh?''

aargh...

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 20 January 2003 13:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

one year passes...
Alert Jazz Documentary on Channel 4 NOW !

Branford Marsalis: It's a Jazz Thing

World renowned saxophonist Branford Marsalis goes in search of the true spirit of contemporary jazz, embarking on a musical journey taking him from New York to Chicago and Paris to London.

Who is watching?

DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 13 November 2004 19:02 (nineteen years ago) link

(help im an American and cant see Channel 4) So what does he find??

don, Saturday, 13 November 2004 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.jazzfm.com/whatson/jazzwise_news_list.php

10.04 :: Branford Marsalis to present new TV documentary

...The 90-minute documentary was made by production company Somethin' Else and is directed by Christopher Walker. The documentary follows Marsalis' travels around Europe and the US as he meets leading contemporary figures in jazz including Herbie Hancock, Michael Brecker, John McLaughlin and Dave Douglas, Bill Frisell, Medeski Martin and Wood, Tim Berne, Evan Parker, David S Ware, Ken Vandermark and the Art Ensemble of Chicago. Commenting on the project, Jez Nelson, the executive producer on the show, says: 'There hasn't been a major, terrestrial jazz TV show for many years ? so this is really exciting for us. Branford is that rare thing ? a great musician who's also a superb and engaging presenter ? this should be a fantastic journey!'

So far NYC and Chicago have been visited

NYC, including

David S Ware
Tim Berne
DJ Spooky
Frisell
Dave Douglas
Michael Brecker

Chicago including:

Chicago Underground Trio
Ken Vandermark
Art Ensemble of Chicago

DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 13 November 2004 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Branford Marsalis is a good communicator/ listener

DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 13 November 2004 19:57 (nineteen years ago) link

So, he's actually having conversations, arguements, even, rather than just laying down the Last Word? Wynton's learned how to bullshit interviewers, but he's still Der Kommisar of Lincoln Center, wheread baranford's still the upfront asshole,with the cranky comments, yet genuinely seems to (happen to) enjoy a much wider range of music than does Wynton. The progressive asshole--another great jazz tradition, and glad to see he's growing into it! I really wanna see this.

don, Sunday, 14 November 2004 05:15 (nineteen years ago) link

five months pass...
what dave didn't say about 'the birth of bebop' (by scott deveaux) is that it doesn't just have musicological stuff, but puts that musicological stuff in socio-economic context, beautifully. i would say the book's more the latter than the former. basic argt is that, instead of being a clear-cut rebellion by black youth or defiantly anti-commercial art-for-art's-sake development, the formation of bebop had everything to do with young (and old - book spends a lotta time on coleman hawkins as a transitional figure) musicians unable to enjoy the rewards of the profession that was there for them (largely, dance band musician in the 20s-40s), or sometimes, unable to even survive in the profession, due to about four million things like the markets for dance bands, radio and recording access, white competitors and race relations in every single way you could imagine - on tours, securing jobs with bands, getting hotel residency gigs, drawing white customers to clubs, the economic crunch during the war. unable to get ahead, then, and: finding and making a way to get paid, and to enjoy the professional status and recognition they thought they deserved (as with any professional black musician at the time, in particular).

time spent on hawkins is partly because his progressivist leanings, harmonic ideas, etc. gave him certain affinities with the young players that he ended up associating with later in his career, to benefit of both parties; and because the story of his career provides a contrasting example of a swing-era musician looking for a way to be professionally successful (or just secure) apart from occupying a standard part in the swing music industry.

along with the berliner book, certainly the best thing i've ever read on jazz.

oh, and the musicological stuff is demanding (i can kinda follow the basic harmonic theory jargon but i've never studied it enough to -feel- what it means, which makes reading this stuff a battle against vagueness) but consistently illuminating.

Josh (Josh), Sunday, 24 April 2005 04:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Josh!

Jordan (Jordan), Sunday, 24 April 2005 23:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Hi!

Jordan (Jordan), Sunday, 24 April 2005 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link

one year passes...
Bumping, in light of the reference to it in the Keith Jarrett thread.

[Please forgive me for not re-reading everything up-thread; I will do so later and discover that whatever I say has already been said.]

I loved the series, because I tend to be ignorant of pre-bebop jazz, and there was a wealth of material that was new and wonderful from those early decades. It was nice to see the young Louis Armstrong in full possession of his mojo, and to learn that his lithe singing — quite a bit removed from the gravelly self-parody of the Louis I would see on TV as a kid — was almost the equal of his trumpet playing.

But I was among the chorus of haters (like Jarrett) who resented the coverage of the post-Ornette-goes-to-New-York years. I've calmed down since, and can see the documentary now as a history of the jazz industry rather than a history of jazz. It makes sense, in that context, to cover the fifth decades of Ellington and Armstrong's careers, rather than give adequate space to "Not Jazz as We've defined it" — New Thing, AACM, Brötzmann, fusion, and so on.

It's odd/interesting that the Ornette portion was so nicely done, considering the short shrift given to what follows him, but it makes sense in light of the later acceptance of his music by the Jazz at Lincoln Center people. Welcome to the jazz-industry canon, Mr. Coleman.

The film begs for a Jazz II, covering 1960 onwards, but with Carla Bley and Rafi Zabor replacing Wynton and Crouch as consultants. Unfortunately, that's not the sort of thing that attracts the corporate sponsorship. Give it 20 years.

mark 0 (mark 0), Monday, 25 September 2006 14:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Wynton Marsalis supposedly loves Ornette.

Anyway, I think your approach is the right one - yeah, the film was incomplete, but now there's a perfect opportunity to create their own take on it or to cover the ground that was missed. Hell, there should be 10 films.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Monday, 25 September 2006 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link

eight years pass...

Wynton Marsalis called this 11-year old jazz pianist his hero last year

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/13/arts/music/joey-alexander-an-11-year-old-jazz-sensation-who-hardly-clears-the-pianos-sightlines.html

F♯ A♯ (∞), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 17:25 (eight years ago) link

that led me to Kojo Roney (Wallace Roney's 9 year old nephew!) channeling Tony Williams, and holy shit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Ow0YEO9qM

lil urbane (Jordan), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 20:53 (eight years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.