Things that suck I: Druggists refuse to give out birth control pills

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On a related note, I just learned from my sister that my dad is pro-life except in very extreme circumstances. :-(

Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:54 (nineteen years ago) link

ask him if women who have abortions should be put in jail

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:58 (nineteen years ago) link

I think I'd rather just avoid the subject. Apparently, he got really mad about it when he was talking to her. He's a Democrat, but a fairly conservative one. I think his neighbors and brothers must have gotten to him. But yeah, sorry to derail the thread.

Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link

We called in something for a patient the other day, who WAS NOT PREGNANT, and the pharmacist refused to fill it because she said "it looks like they're trying to induce an ABOOORTION." It was the first time anything like that had happened to us. Fuck the times.

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Obvious response, but:
Yet automatic weapons are sold every day...
Um, looks like someone's going to maybe shoot someone? Never!

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:24 (nineteen years ago) link

It seems like doctors, pharmacies etc should be CLEARLY LABELLED so that you don't go to the wrong one for the wrong thing. Need birth control? Go to the one labelled Not Loony.

Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:26 (nineteen years ago) link

anybody notice this bit:

"I refuse to dispense a drug with a significant mechanism to stop human life," says Karen Brauer, president of the 1,500-member Pharmacists for Life International.

DAMN NEAR EVERYTHING YOU DISPENSE CAN KILL PEOPLE.

kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Exactly! It's totally Loony how quickly history evaporates and/or alters - women were dying trying to induce abortions themselves using all sorts of drugstore meds. Hell, they still do it today b/c they don't know what else to do or feel it's too 'taboo' to ask for the morning-after pill. I always thought it was ridiculous that sex was classified as a sin, but, especially in light of the U.S. election results, I guess that's the case? I have fear.

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:36 (nineteen years ago) link

So you all are going to find out what the policy is on this at your local drugstore, right?

I haven't had a prescription in nearly ten years or else I'd be right there with you.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Just burn Texas. Just burn it. Fuck that fucking state.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I've said it before, TOM. You could set fire to that state tonight and it'd still look the same tomorrow morning.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I know that, I lived there for 5 fucking months.
Honestly several of the people I met there seemed quite nice.
But I could say the same for Florida.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Could we miss the part that has my cousin in it?

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:01 (nineteen years ago) link

The only downside to setting fire to Florida: everyone's grandparents live there.

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Mine don't! They're all dead except for my step-grandmother. :-(

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Pretty soon the earth is going to spit this country out into the far corners of the universe.

Je4nne Ć’ury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.georgewbushstore.com/images/601_6010.jpg

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Woman: "What do you mean you won't give me my birth control pills?"
Druggist: "No, ma'am, those put an end to human life and I cannot support that. It's against the word of God."
Woman: "Can you tell me where the coat hangers are?"
Druggist: "Aisle 5"
Woman: "Thanks."

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Another reason Texas should be blown to shit, and more things to generally get infuriated about. I'm really glad my archconservative idiot fuck coworker is off today.

http://www.cjr.org/issues/2004/6/mooney-science.asp

TOMBOT, Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:33 (nineteen years ago) link

These pharmacists should consider themselves lucky that so far pro-choice activists don't seem inclined to use rifles or bombs to get their opinions across.
Now I'm mad.

Personally, if this was going on anywhere around me, I'd just lob a brick or two through their windows in the middle of the night.

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Now I feel like blowing Texas to shit, and I've never even been there.

RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:07 (nineteen years ago) link

I recall reading an article in Rolling Stone a while ago about these insane christian fundies who more or less stalked and harrased people involved in abortion clinics, as perilously close to the edge of the law as they could. They'd stand outside their homes day and night, stick up signs calling them baby murderers, and go round to all the stores the person patronised and tell the shopkeepers to stop serving them etc etc.

Well fuck this, if there is such a thing as the "Pharmacists for Life International" then this gives us a list of what pharmacies are involved in this ugly practice.

So people should serve it right back up to them. Don't just boycott them - picket them, harrass them, make their lives hell and put them out of business! I almost wish I lived in the US because if I did, I would seriously start organising such a thing.

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Trayce, a few family planning doctors have been killed in North Dakota - they were Minnesotans who flew/drove in to serve at the clinics part time.

I would have thought in the greater scheme of things that doctor's orders trumped pharmacist's wishes. If one was in a one-drugstore town with a zealot in charge and one could experience delays in treatment due to that person's obstruction, there are legal remedies there.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Aye, sadly we have even had some family planning clinic staff murdered here in Melbourne too - a security guard at one place a few years back was shot defending the staff from a mentally ill guy who burst in with a gun. Terrible. Extremist catholics picket a place I sometimes go by on my tram to work, I used to think that was a really US thing but it goes on here too.

I too would have thought there was some law around scrips that mean if a doctor's issued one, it must be filled, stuff wank what the chemist thinks. I guess not though. I sincerely hope it never comes to that here - but if it does I'll be first in line to organise protests against it. As someone who's had to be on the pill for medical rather than birth control reasons myself, this issue is very important to me.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:41 (nineteen years ago) link

"Stuff wank"? I meant "stiff wank". For some reason.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Hmm...I'd certainly never advocate throwing bricks through windows or forcing any private business to sell goods that they don't want to, but I don't see what right an individual pharmacist (unless they also own their shop) would have to arbitrarily refuse to fill some prescriptions. Regardless, it would certainly be bad business sense.

mouse (mouse), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:47 (nineteen years ago) link

For sure - I'd like to think people would find out and they'd lose business out of it.

Tho I've a sinking feeling that perhaps in some small or very close knit religious townships maybe it'd have the opposite effect :/ Also if it was the only one in town as someone said above... god how horrible. Aie, this whole thing upsets me.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I have this menacing "Handmaids Tale" feeling about all this.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:51 (nineteen years ago) link

But this is the age of online pharmacies and mail order drugs. I doubt that this is going to be a serious problem.

mouse (mouse), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Mm... thats a good point :)

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah well, not that that wouldn't suck arse. I had insurance for a while that for some inexplicable reason required that I mail order birth control pills (other drugs could be picked up at the pharmacy, mind). Can we get all het up about that sort of thing instead?

mouse (mouse), Friday, 12 November 2004 02:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I had insurance that refused to go through mail order/internet drugstores, actually.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 02:20 (nineteen years ago) link

But this is the age of online pharmacies and mail order drugs. I doubt that this is going to be a serious problem.

This could be a very serious problem when it comes to Plan B emergency contraception, which has a limited window of opportunity. Online and mail-order pharmacies are not much help when you need a prescription filled right away.

j.lu (j.lu), Friday, 12 November 2004 03:38 (nineteen years ago) link

pharmacists are typically not intelligent enough to be doctors
so they should set their petty egos aside and shut the fuck up and do their job
because if they really knew better, they'd be writing prescriptions, not filing them

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 12 November 2004 09:40 (nineteen years ago) link

On consideration I think you have to tell the pharmacist that when you present him with a prescription the transaction is simple: fill it. If the Rx refuses to do this, I want to know on what basis they have the legal right to do so. I am not interested in personal beliefs, opinions or 'thoughts' on either side of the issue. Your personal beliefs are for you, personally. An opinion is not a fact and 'thoughts' generally don't resemble yer THINKING on the issue.

Women can all possibly agree on this statement: Until *I* decide I want to be a mother, THAT'S NOT A BABY.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 11:46 (nineteen years ago) link

? There are MILLIONS of women who don't agree with that.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 12 November 2004 11:56 (nineteen years ago) link

(or rather with the phrase "Until the mother decides...")

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Andrew, that's not for a man to say.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Explain slowly. Why is my gender relevant in pointing out not all women agree on what you said they did?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Or: which 'that' are you referring to?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Andrew, I'm a journalist. Even a crap journalist calls bullshit on 'millions' claimed but not actually sourced to any stats. In the UK only 4 per cent of the population overall objects to a woman's right to abortion, for example. Whether they would have the procedure themselves WRT their OWN unplanned pregnancy is another matter entirely - and the British public make that distinction which is evident in the law here. The only problem with UK abortion policy is that the woman has to claim mental distress to terminate, whereas I believe that an unmarried woman should be able to ask for termination without having to claim a diminished or endangered status.

You will notice in the US that those who are making laws against abortion are generally MEN behaving in a paternalistic manner WRT women's reproductive rights and it is touched by their fear of female sexuality generally. I have, in professional and activist situations both, met many anti-abortion advocates who are doing so on life/religious grounds. They are almost always middle-aged men and shall we say their approach to debate suggests that they believe that women are not equal under the law to them and have to be somehow managed or controlled BY THEM PERSONALLY if sexually active. I think this attitude is both prurient and furtive and can be combatted by certain types of wake-up calls.

Women should start from the argument position of 'this is my decision, not yours, and furthermore I am in no way sorry that you have no role to play in this decision-making process which is mine, not yours.'

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:38 (nineteen years ago) link

why not kidnap pharmacists and inseminate them against their will and see how they like it?

ken c (ken c), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:45 (nineteen years ago) link

But this is the age of online pharmacies and mail order drugs. I doubt that this is going to be a serious problem.

Also, it's the lower class, without access to computers and/or credit cards that will suffer.... again.

xpost

suzy, while I agree with your overall point of view, I don't think you're 10% correct. I live by a clinic that performs abortions. Most of the picketers (every Saturday) are women and, sickeningly, children.

Also, I think Andrew's remark was that millions of women disagree with when to call a baby a baby. He was responding to the idea that you can't call it a baby until the mother calls it one. When a teenage girl throws a baby into a dumpster, I doubt she thinks of it as a baby.

Again, I think we're all basically on the same side here ..

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:48 (nineteen years ago) link

and by 10%, I mean 70%.

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Dave, I'd love to see a pie chart of how I'm wrong and right.

Women and children making scenes at clinics is somewhat lower on the scale of importance than dealing with who's indoctrinating them in the first place or manipulating them for political gain: neo-conservative men.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:55 (nineteen years ago) link

'Millions' is entirely unsourced and I don't have complete confidence in it, though I do have more than in your initial estimate of zero.

You do seem intent on positioning this as a straight battle of the sexes, and while that's mostly true, and matches your experiences, you have to remember that people are fucking crazy, and cannot be relied on to act in their own interest. It's not just men with their foot on the neck of Womankind, many women are happy to perform the contortions that allow them to put their own foot there.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 12 November 2004 12:56 (nineteen years ago) link

My first sentence there is more combatative than it should be. Sorry.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Andrew, you also have nothing new to tell me about female misogyny.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 14:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Grand. So what were you saying in the sentence I took exception to?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 12 November 2004 15:03 (nineteen years ago) link

I was suggesting a possible argument strategy that disarmed through disrespect. You interpreted this as a sweeping statement - go back and find the 'possibly'.

Women are protected from this sort of thing by Roe v. Wade ultimately. Their constitutional right to terminate pregnancies is enshrined in it as-is. Women have to say 'these are my rights' as opposed to 'I'm sorry, but' followed by whatever, because that is the beginning of the dimunition of their rights. No negotiation, no 'compromise'. We need Pink Panthers or something. Also, the Constitution is about permission, not prohibition. That's why the booze ban did not work.

It is not a battle of the sexes. The men that pursue these forms of legislation are in the minority of men overall; the women who support them are in the minority overall.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 16:56 (nineteen years ago) link

with related questions of expertise and skill?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:57 (nineteen years ago) link

I have no problem* with a pharmacist refusing to fill a prescription for any medication he or she feels is wrong for some reason..

I don't have a problem with it when there is a drugstore on every corner .. Unfortunately, again, the argument leaves out poorer people in smaller cities, suburban or rural locations who may have to travel a fur piece to get to another pharmacy. And without owning a car and without public transportation available.

So for that reason, I'm against a pharmacist or doctor intervening in such a way.

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 12 November 2004 19:01 (nineteen years ago) link

anyone in a rural area GET OUT NOW

dave q (listerine), Friday, 12 November 2004 19:06 (nineteen years ago) link

i certainly don't agree with them (those refusing to precribe or fill said prescriptions) but i don't think that they should be forced to act against their morals either. perhaps the problem dave mentioned could be avoided by the doctor filling the prescriptions knowing beforehand which pharmacy would fill it.

Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 12 November 2004 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link

..or having a pharmacy located at the doctor's office .. but there's a whole issue with competition and free trade, etc, etc.. But just knowing that "yes, the CVS in Pixley will fill that for you" doesn't do much good when you live in Hooterville. (Although I think the cannonball does make daily stops in Pixley.)

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 12 November 2004 19:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Most OBGYNs (and even general family practitioners who do basic OBGYN services) get tons of free samples from pharmaceutical companies of various birth control methods. My doctor in NYC had no problem handing us like three months worth of samples each visit just in case (you can't get to the pharmacy immediately, you forgot to refill the prescription, whatever). Is this not the same in less urban areas? I imagine they would get samples too, though maybe not in the same magnitude as "busier" (and higher-priced) urban doctors, I imagine the doctors could help lessen the problem by distributing more of the samples to women in areas where there are less pharmacies as a precautionary measure against zealous pharmacists? It's not really a solution but it would help avoid the problem of these women who are ending up missing pills and being at risk because of this situation of having to hunt for a new pharmacy.

Also, Planned Parenthoods generally have limited pharmacies located within them as well...again this doesn't really HELP women who are in areas with only a small number of pharmacies to choose from, where a Planned Parenthood might be hours away.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Obviously distributing more samples in less populated areas which are more likely to get this pharmacy problem has utterly no financial incentive for the pharmaceutical companies so this might be a huge stumbling block in my interim solution.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Most hospitals have a pharmacy in them too.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link


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