HIS DARK MATERIALS

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200_web/drp000/p043/p04307mc5wb.jpg

(Is it Pas or Pax? God, I'm hopeless.)

I suspect the substance of the themes and the brilliant bravura superscience will be lost in a movie adaptation, which will surely aim at the HP audience. I think these are genuinely great books on all kinds of levels, far better than Tolkien in pretty much every way. They are probably my favourite children's books ever, even ahead of Alan Garner. Well made, a lot of it will look really fabulous, especially duelling polar bears in armour. I hope they don't cop out on the seriousness, or the religious and scientific content.

However, I wouldn't compare them to the H.P. tales - I think that _HDM_ is meant for a more mature audience, and the stories are infinitely more complex. While the H.P. story line is becoming increasingly complex and addresses more issues, the stories still make me think of fifth- and sixth-grade student readers, whereas I think of seventh- and eight-grades as being the starting points for _HDM_ (which is the same range for The Lord of the Rings in my mind, though The Hobbit works with younger little ones.

Why eight?

HDM is very pompous, portentous, but full of excellent tales which do try and push the envelope (ick) for children's fiction. He's really made an effort, and while it all gets a bit up its own arse, it's pretty damn good reading.

I assume you're able to get in there already, surely.

Is anyone going to buy/read Lyra's Oxford?

("for the Dads")

I thought the third was disappointing, but I don't know how it couldn't have been. Pullman was throwing his never ever-wider with every book (staring out in our world at the beginning of Knife was a great shock, and the dust = dark matter stuff was good too). But the third kept having to add more and more concepts, and then characters to explain concepts, to close all the doors it had opened (ha ha). Oh here's xx swooping in to explain what needs to happen next. Felt a little rickedy. Lots of compelling locales/events (land of the dead esp) but the overall shape was a little diffuse.

death of decrepit unhealthy pope-like god: not even a little narrator announcement 'and thus, they killed god' it's not even mentioned later, by anyone, 'uhh, d'you know what you did back there?'

Mary Malone's story of her childhood love and then leaving her faith was terrific, but otherwise I felt some of the NO GOD GEDDIT stuff near the end was a little too telegraphed, a little to SUCK ON THAT, CS LEWIS.

Does anyone know this other thread or is it all in my head?

Narnia nd Fairy Tales
Alan Garner: C or D?
Susan Cooper: C or D?
Northern Lights
His Dark Materials

possibly not

(withdrawn god = kabbalah!)

15 (the twelve was just a rough estimate)

My thoughts on finishing amber spyglass by the way is that it is a perfectly english ending, and therefore crap. Down with catholicism up with anglicanism (same structure without as many rigid sexual hangups) and meanwhile growing up means getting over adventure and becoming a boring scholar.

That reminds me of the thread I keep thinking I imagined, where mark s came up with an intriguing new concept of history and time.

I enjoyed in the 3rd book how the literal actual death of god was like a passing thing buried in the middle of a paragraph and you might have missed it.

It was the same in the show I now realise. There was this very brief scene with a large crystal cube that has a person/angel curled up in it that they disintegrated. I didnt understand what it was but I do now.

the wheely creatures look a bit too like if snorky from the banana splits turned up in avatar -- and the rush through the plot-points is beginning to arrive: mary's discovery of the amber lens seemed both too easy and under-explained

its various settings are still great and i feel that dafne keen has grown into the role and the character now that lyra (like keen) is a little older

ruth wilson remains MVP

iorek byrnison giving mcavoy a richly deserved hard time lol

claws shd have been out tho

the battle in heaven was p well realised IMO, tho it also makes you realise how dr who-ish the steampunky dimension of this story can get -- like the story will be resolved when who (or whoever) gets to press a red button on the head villain's dash which reads "my evil universe-transforming plan into explodey ruins"

(does the book use the term "mutiverse"? it's not wrong exactly but i was wincing every time azrael said it)

one ep to go

Of what I remember, Asriel & Mrs Coulter's motives get increasingly confusing in the last book, like they're two characters from an old Gossip Girl episode whose motivations change on a dime, just because plot

in that case -- as my memory of the book is v spotty (i suspect bcz flaws in book but also a long time since i read it) -- the TV show handles this with rather more clarity even when their motivation is intensely conflicted (towards lyra, towards one another). with her especially -- more thx to ruth wilson than philip pullman maybe? -- we have learned always to read everything she does thru a "things not as they seem" filter. metatron is amusingly rude abt her to her face ("you are a cess-pit of moral filth") but she is NOT AT ALL BOTHERED and her face just says "i know you are but what am i"

Really enjoyed the whole series of this. The Amber Spyglass was prob my least favourite of the books and I did wonder how some things could possibly work on screen, but they pulled it off. Both young leads loads better in the last season. Not a spoiler, but the visuals for the physical battle in heaven and plunging fall were absolutely stunning.