Depression and what it's really like

it's a kind of positive self talk, is what i mean.

positive self-talk and all its variants otm

i think i'll suspend disbelief and give it a shot. i just have it stereotyped as me saying "i am super duper" over and over in my head.

and the lady my therapist wants me to check out is the same one who said AIDS patients could cure themselves with positive thinking. ?!?@?#$%)

oh yeah you were talking about this upthread a while ago

"I am loveable because I exist." I think I need a little more than that. Maybe this stuff works for other people, but not sure it suits my personality. My therapists' office is in some yoga place where they have crystal healing seminars, so perhaps this is all starting to fit together.

I really need to stop making personal decisions based on whether I'd think it'd be funny on a TV show

There's a lot of that going around. Try to resist.

I've never been able to suspend disbelief enough for self-love mantras either, but I'll say again what I have said many times; I find loving-kindness meditation immeasurably helpful. You are wishing other people well, which helps you to forgive the world (a tiny bit at a time) and you wish yourself well, which requires no suspension of judgement.

Practising loving other people when they don't deserve it (from a safe distance) is a good step w/r/t loving yourself, feeling that you don't deserve it.

I really need to stop making personal decisions based on whether I'd think it'd be funny on a TV show

― Spectrum, Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:42 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Louie has ruined us all

xp loving-kindness meditation I can get down with, there's something substantial to it. I remember coming across something like that when I was reading up on Buddhism. maybe I'll try it out.

that louis h4y self-affirmation stuff is like something i'd try as a kid when you see one general thing like this, and another general thing like that, and you'd think you could just mash it up together to get a logical result, despite the actual details being way more complex, and the outcome being completely unrealistic despite being superficially logical. magical thinking, that's what I'm trying to say.

not to focus on the past and instead focus on positive affirmations, which i'm not really down with

She has a point, but you'll have to figure out how to implement it so it makes some kind of sense to you. You have noted already that people sometimes seek out your friendship and act like you are a worthwhile person and this has in the past puzzled you because your self-image didn't allow for this proof of your worth to have any basis in reality.

Maybe, instead of chanting "I am really a worthwhile person" to yourself in the mirror, which I admit would seem pretty dumb to me too, you could force yourself to notice all the concrete instances of your own actions and those of others toward you that contradict that idea that you're a little worthless shit, and then force yourself to notice those instances are real, present and undeniable, while the sneering voice in your head is just a voice in your head. Then you can say, "I am really a worthwhile person" with a more conviction and it will seem less like magical thinking.

But to make it work, you'll have to allow yourself to notice all that good stuff you used to dismiss immediately and relentlessly ignore.

You're right, Aimless. I know there's some value in that positive affirmation stuff, but it comes from developing the actual, real life positive conclusion first. I don't think I'm going to get that doing this endless quest through the past I've been on. My therapist was right to try and guide me away from that ... I mean, I think the lady she's repping for is corny to say the least, but what she was trying to get across was right. That's why I'm glad I'm in therapy, there's someone there to pull me out of the abyss.

I think at this point I'm obsessively dwelling on the past because it presents this giant puzzle I can solve, like I can play psychological detective in some film noir I've made out of my life. I guess I don't have time for that shit anymore... I really should just find hobbies or work that'll keep me satisfied in that regard.

the thing about that puzzle is that it has no solution; who you are right now is the unfathomable result of a million coincidences and events. Hobbies, work, are good things.

yeah. I think it's too much to try and figure out every little thing from the past 30 years of my life. i mean, i've gained some valuable insight reflecting on the past, but it's often for the sake of itself without any present or future thinking. like, I still haven't thought about the positive stuff about myself or my life yet, but I've explored all sorts of developmental theories ad nauseam. truth be told I'm making serious progress here, so it hasn't been for naught. maybe i'm ready to change my direction towards the present day.

i think the important thing about positive affirmations is to make sure, as aimless says, to use instances that are concrete instances of your own actions and those of others toward you that ... are real, present and undeniable

one of the things i get out of working with my therapist(s) is help identifying these things which i can then use, very effectively, as positive self-talk.

if it's not real or realistic (cf stuart smalley) then it's not useful

yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. but I'm starting think now that I need to "break up" with my therapist. I'm going to talk to her about my issues/concerns, and depending on how she responds I'll take it from there. I feel like I'm in a bad relationship again where every time I go home I think "I need to break up with this person ..." yet rationalize my way out of it.

It's possible she's taken you as far as she is able, but if you do break up with her, please consider finding another therapist and continuing to seek assistance with your struggle. Your own unaided thinking may not be clear enough yet to be entirely relied upon.

yeah tbh the professional thing for her to do would be to recommend a colleague she thinks would better meet your current needs, and she'll probably be happy to do so.

i'm definitely going to continue therapy. that's why I might have to do this, because I want to make the most of my life. I think the issue is twofold: she doesn't seem comfortable connecting emotionally, so she pushes me away from doing the hard emotional work I'm doing (which is just a natural consequence of me taking treatment seriously), and she's an acolyte of Louise H4y who believes the past isn't a factor in a person's psychological makeup and all problems can be cured by repeating positive mantras. She's down with Feeling Good, which is cool, but I don't think she's the person I can explore my past with.

Last week I had an really serious breakthrough where I saw in crystal clarity for the first time in my adult life how much my mind and emotions recreate the past and how I've been a prisoner of it. This is like a huge fucking leap for me in breaking out of all this crap I've been dealing with. and in our session I felt like she took a giant dump on it and wanted me to focus on something I had utterly zero interest in focusing on. and this ain't the first time.

Holy shit! The Louise H4y CD she gave me features a very bizarre claim that bad thoughts cause cancer and ... leprosy!?#@(?. WTF IS THIS?!?!? I WAS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, I NEED TO GO!!! :{ : { : {

what right thinking person can believe this crap? this is yet another case where following intuition was the right way to go.

this Louise H4y crap seems fucking dangerous, I can't believe she's been pushing on me to get with this. this is yet another "aha!" moment where I realize I'm in a fucked up situation by ignoring my inner warning flares... which started like, second session. she has helped me, though, and I ignored most of the weird crap she's been trying to suggest to me, so it ain't all bad. anyyyyyway.... back to regular programming.

It's incredibly frustrating to have this one area of your life that just consistently rears its ugly head and really undermines all of the good things you have going on. Like I know parts of my brain should be "just STFU and be thankful for the good things", but that tactic hasn't been working as of late.

ok, ok, one last bitching from me before I get back to work on myself, i'm feeling way in the dumps now and just need to get it out. i'm getting so damn sick of being a weirdo and never really fitting in anywhere. my whole life i just wanted to jam a railroad spike into my head so i could be like everyone else. i'm so sick of having to hide who I really am and not having any kind-of environment where I can really be me and express myself. like, i need to work my butt off and take the initiative to find my place, but i've experienced so damn little of it I don't even know where to begin.

at my job, and most jobs i ever worked at, no matter how much progress i make in therapy i'm never going to really fit in and there's a low ceiling to how much i'm going to be able to get along with people. or environments like this. or places like where i grew up. which is pretty much the mainstream majority kinda thing. i guess i need to accept that. huh. well that blows. i wish there were more people like me out there :{

woah! think i'm starting to make sense of this. sorry for typing out all this crap here, feels like i'm inside a black hole atm.

i'm getting so damn sick of being a weirdo and never really fitting in anywhere.
soon you'll turn the corner and join the rest of us who feel that way and are ok with it :)

you're gonna be ok. have you thought about art therapy of some kind? this made me think you might enjoy it i'm so sick of having to hide who I really am and not having any kind-of environment where I can really be me and express myself.

what is art therapy, exactly? honestly i feel most at home when i'm at some bizarre music show or experimental "happening"... i always leave stuff like that feeling rejuvinated. i used to take friends and girlfriends to stuff like that and they'd always say, "that was really weird, man, i don't know..."

I meant like making art therapeutically -- using art as a medium to discuss things, I guess? Pouring your heart into noises or shapes and colors or cutting up magazines or whatever floats your boat!

hmmm ... that could be fun. creating stuff is this totally essential part of myself that i feel like i'm missing right now. i used to write, draw, and make music like crazy from about age 7 til graduating college, then i died inside when i went into ADULT WORLD 5000. thanks for the suggestion.

i'm getting so damn sick of being a weirdo and never really fitting in anywhere.

xp - I know the feeling! Suerte to you.

hey spectrum, sorry to hear you're feeling so low. fwiw, i can relate in a lot of ways. i'm feeling more worthless & alienated than i have in ages, genuine black hole shit, but i've been on the other side of it, and i know that feeling like a "weirdo" (or w/e) can be pretty damn great, too. liberating, empowering, kind of thrilling when you make it work for you, not against. i mean, everyone i've ever loved has been a stone cold freak. god bless 'em all.

thanks contendo, it's good to know i'm not alone. good luck getting out of the black hole, it's not a fun place to be.

funny, what makes me weird in the 'burbs were actually huge assets for me in NYC, i just wasn't ready to be uhhh ... accepted yet, i guess. i should think about moving back there, i just wish it wasn't so damn expensive.

grass is always greener man, don't discount yourself too much

i talked about this feeling different stuff with my therapist and I don't think she believed me. she thought i was looking for ways to reject people or something. which would be all fine and well except for the fact that I've spent my whole life trying to "belong" with your average red-blooded American, and it failed miserably every time. i always made 100% of the effort and it was never reciprocated, on top of me losing my identity in the process.

like, good idea to keep myself open to people and relate to them to the best of my ability, cuz we're all human beings and all, but that's what i'm bringing to the table here. ugh. i'm starting to feel really confused and weird after every session now.

like, this is one of the central reasons why I think there's something wrong with me and that I'm a pile of garbage, and I feel like she's telling me to do the very things that led me down that path in the first place. i don't know, I'm not sure if she knows the whole story and is just going on common sense as she knows it ... i'll figure it out.

yeah, my therapist was right, this is all my fault and i'm not trying hard enough. i feel like total shit right now. maybe I really should find a new therapist, or maybe I'm completely nuts. i don't know anymore. hurrrrrrrf.

you're definitely not alone

I'm not an incredibly social person within my interests, but having different friends who relate to different things helps. Or even a family member or coworker you can at least vent to about your frustrations with no expectation of commiseration, necessarily.

having something like ilx is nice in that it's a sort of support to know that there are other people with diverse or fringe interests doing things

there is definitely a relatable core to human interaction, but for some of us, the baggage of the small talk and things that people use as shortcuts to casual conversation -- sports, fitness hobbies, shuttling kids to soccer practice, church -- are the things we're just not into.

Is the cd helpful at all beyond the magical thinking weirdness?

i can't speak to yr situation, spectrum, but lately i come away from therapy feeling like complete shit. it's not my therapist's fault, though. i'm being forced to confront and admit things i've spent years avoiding, forcing myself to do this. being stripped of the carapace of denial makes me feel miserable and worthless, a wretched bug exposed to unforgiving light. i understand the value my suffering, though. better to feel the full weight of my choices & situation than distract myself with numbing trivialities (hallo, ILX).

like you, i often feel profoundly, helplessly alienated. i'm convinced, however, that this sense of rejection is self-imposed, or at least the inevitable product of choices i voluntarily make. i know that i've been waging a war of passive refusal my whole life, letting shit slide, letting myself slide, dodging real responsibility. this is a kind of hostility, oppositional defiance, an infantile stage we're supposed to grow out of. i can't deny any of that. even if i don't know why i'm passive lashing out at the world, pushing it away, i can't help but see the pattern.

that may not have anything to do with what you're going through, but maybe it's the lens through which your therapist is viewing your situation? it's a very common diagnosis...

xp thanks, mh. ilx is totally cool like that, a safe haven for the weirdos of the world. i totally appreciate all the cool folks on here, and the support i've gotten here.

don't want to sound like a douchnozzle, but in kindergarten i was labled "gifted" by the school psychologist, and after researching some issues i had, websites kept popping up on that subject. here's a pdf outlining it ... maybe some y'all can relate. http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Articles/counseling/c230.pdf

I kind of feel like schools are getting better at some programs after determining that labeling kids in such a way sometimes seems prescriptive for kids, and if they don't necessarily learn new concepts (or things that require practice to master) that they're failing in some way. I spent years dodging things I felt weren't my strength and never learned persistence.

I got to be in a lot of really cool classes in elementary through high school, though. It was as if being good at normal education opened up the ability to work on creative or critical thinking education. Kind of the opposite of the way it should be, really.

I guess the relation to this thread would be this -- such labels can be prescriptive in a destructive way and a lot of life is determining that /everyone/ has the potential to be gifted or weird or an outsider in their interests and exploits and this isn't something that separates you from others.

hey contenderizer, that's a good point. i know my therapist is right to some degree, but this shit is so friggin complex it's really hard to deal with casually. i think i need to take a breather and really consider everything in an easier state of mind. like, put it on the backburner until I can get some chill time. trying to parse this stuff at work isn't really helpful. and i totally relate to what you're saying, so you're not alone.

i unno mh. the label didn't affect me much other than being aware people thought i was 'smart'. i brought it up because it involves way different things than just interests, exploits, achievements, etc. i sorta regret even bringing it up, it's a loaded issue because there's so much social status baggage behind things like that. i know i'll work it all out.

that's cool

it sure made me feel like I was a failure if I didn't immediately grasp all things

:{ sorry, i wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything. i feel like a butt now.

oh, no! I was trying to relate a bit but we all have our own problems to carry around. don't feel burdened by anyone else's. * thumbs up *

oooooh, ok. just assumed i was being an ass for some reason and totally misread it. reading it the other way, i feel the same way, too.

fuck i need to chill the hell out! thank god the weekend's almost here.

now i get what my therapist was saying. damn therapy can be hard. :S