privilege as a meme

I don't know if that's a zing or a hi-5 but you're welcome.

hi-5

but really I was referring to your link/list, the DN is just a bonus

Oh, link: http://ted.coe.wayne.edu/ele3600/mcintosh.html AGAIN.

Some of those are really fucking stupid and myopic in their own ways. And some of them can be quite easily flipped around. But in the aggregate, sure, fine.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0fe8a835da91659fff2bb0e05f09b8d0/tumblr_ml3vzbvkHi1s8gblro1_500.png

what is the "ring ring ring ring patriarchy" comment supposed to be addressing/responding to?

bananaphones

That got away from me in the press but thank you for bringing it back: what LG said is completely bonkers to me. I know a signif number of ppl personally who grew up with welfare, food stamps, etc, who now are professionals, have advanced degrees, and are fully integrated into my work and social circles with everyone else. And I know there are more than a couple of ilxors who grew up poor and disadvantaged in multiple ways and yet are educated, media savvy, internet-using moderns just like everyone else. I do not recognize my own experience anywhere in his account.

Maybe social mobility is more alive in the US, I mean in terms of journalism which is my main area since I grew up, the BBC is most of my career and is relatively diverse in terms of gender, race, religion and sexuality also disability, white men are in the minority in the places I worked, but class wise it's quite skewed towards middle class and up, I think it's probably a lot harder to for positive discrimination to be employed in terms of class, not sure if that's ever been done. I've never seen a form that sought to positively discriminate by class.

Journalism is the field with the least social mobility iirc. It's probably impossible to positively discriminate by class but much more can be done to stop actively discriminating against less wealthy people through the use of internships, etc. Access to good universities is also important and social background can be addressed there.

i answered 'no' to all those questions o_O

lmao @ those poor oppressed misogynist nerds, we need to check our cool privilege and have some empathy for their resentful horniness

internships & public schools

http://gawker.com/5994318/the-knifes-new-album-is-sort-of-the-accidental-racist-of-dark-electro+acoustic-experimental-music

privilege as a meme

more OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?

i love the knife. in terms of britain vs. america class mobility etc., i'm not sure that there is more social mobility in america, but belief in its possibility -- in the meritocracy -- is such an ingrained part of the american psyche that we never really have an honest discussion about class here. people in america don't identify with their "class" as closely as they do in england, maybe. that is why reagan was able to slip his neoliberal restructuring policies more or less under the radar, couched in polite platitudes, where in britain people forced margaret thatcher to really go to bat for her policies in a more direct way, which is why there are so many o_0 quotes from her.

these are just my impressions and suspicions, i'd be interested to hear if other people think there is any truth to them.

It's a privilege to make an album; the Knife have make an album.

The sentence heroically sabotaging itself.

that knife article is trollgaze.

missed most of this thread thankfully. i've seen invoking the idea of 'privilege' used as a way to shut conversations down, and i've even seen actual honest-to-god young activisty types pulling the "you have nothing to say because you are X" thing. but the issue is that like any effective rhetorical device, it can be used to multiple ends and bluntly and dumbly or effectively.

i've also ended up throwing up my hands at certain discussions and resorted to linking to http://derailingfordummies.info/ on occasion because there's some people and some arguments where you just want to say 'go figure this out for yourself and stop being so terrible'.

there was one v. clusterfucky covo i was involved in at some point over whether someone had sad something offensive in this community and how dare ppl raise the issue and 'you misunderstood the joke' and the usual stuff, and months and months later someone who had been v. obtuse actually came out of the closet and talked about how people arguing with him over this stuff had helped him to think through and come to terms with admitting who he was, especially in the context of being a mormon in salt lake city, etc.

so sometimes these maddening discussions do have ultimately positive effects, at least on an individual level.

and that's the other thing i think -- privilege is a v. much individual concept, and it's useful in people thinking about where they're coming from. but it isn't useful at all as a structural analysis, i think, where the issue is not who is privileged, but who is screwed over. so that's the rhetorical retreat in the concept as well.

ring ring ring ring patriarchy
LOL

there should be a raffi thread, he was the first act i ever saw live, at age 5 or something. i'm glad to see he won this poll: Cannibal Corpse vs. Raffi

but yeah, i think the thread ended on a fairly positive consensus: the concept of privilege is indispensable, but it is misused sometimes, but in this it is no different than any other concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPm8InJmgUE

lock thread

i feel ya man, and like i said upthread we don't really talk about class in america, so maybe privilege is one way of getting at that. but let me point out again that even 'underprivileged straight white dudes' accrue benefits just by being a straight white dude - they don't have to think too hard about going home alone from a late-night party, for example, they can assume that the vast majority of media and advertising is aimed at them, they can shop at their local convenience store without being followed by store personnel, etc. these seem like small things, but when youre on the other side and not privy just by virtue of who you are, they can seem very big. and they dont go away even for poor straight white dudes. now, if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna be lighting a candle for underprivileged straight white dudes

― 乒乓, Thursday, 11 April 2013 11:48 (Yesterday) Permalink

i liked where u were going with this post. the friend of mine who is the most resistant to being called out on privilege is also the friend who comes from the poorest family, and i can understand that from his pov. like, why is he privileged when he had to go straight to working an awful job full time after high school because his parents couldn't afford to pay his tuition while we (including many non-male, non-straight, non-white among us) all went to college? a lot of ppl incl myself have tried to explain to him the types of ways including those you listed, & as i said he's pretty resistant. obv they're all good points and he is being obdurate, but i see where his frustrations are coming from. idk maybe because it's not something you can immediately read off of someone (well, neither is straight) but it does seem like poverty/class is a big dimension of privilege that gets left out when focus is primarily in straight-white-male space.

also i don't get why so many ppl showing up in this thread were like "awful thread." these threads are some of ilx at its best

yeah, i agree that this is a good thread. i think the issue is intersectionality: like, he is privileged over a hypothetical college graduate woman in terms of gender, but she may be privileged over him economically and educationally which are, i mean, real privileges too. so you can be both privileged and underprivileged at the same time.

so in certain instances, like walking the streets without fear, he is privileged by being male. in other instances, like having financial autonomy, he is less privileged than many, many women out there. and both things can be true at the same time. sorry if all of this is too obvious.

lock thread.

not until we determine who has privilege ito shouting down other posters in ilx threads about privilege (ie the real issue here)

we need a conch

we need to kill piggy

its because he's white, isn't it?

I think it's a great thread but I also think it's beaten the odds.

Nobody stands up for the odds.

THE KNIFE HAVE MAKE AN ALBUM

WHAT ARE IT NAME

1. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

I wonder why this is the number example of unacknowledged privilege. Given the segregation of communities, many non-white people could arrange this as well, if they wished.

i imagine the point is that to be a member of a significant majority is necessarily to enjoy some measure of privilege. i disagree, though it is often the case. there are examples of minorities being the more privileged group, e.g. south africa.

honestly, that list has a lot of problems, but it's a decent starting point.

9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.

ppft i wish re point no 3

well, it's all framed by race, even when that's unstated. i.e., "my neighbors in the nice gated community will not behave unpleasantly towards me simply because of my race."

my only gripe w/ the list is that its version of "privileged group" is restricted to 1st world whites, relative to nonwhite minorities. the former are massively privileged, don't get me wrong, but itt we've also been discussing other types of privilege: male privilege, ethnic privilege, straight privilege, etc.

It's amazing that they've never thought to update it in light of this thread.

1. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

I wonder why this is the number example of unacknowledged privilege. Given the segregation of communities, many non-white people could arrange this as well, if they wished.

― mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Sunday, April 28, 2013 8:58 AM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark

still not true in most work environments

i know! i've tried advocating change in my own place here but apparently that's a no-no

It's amazing that they've never thought to update it in light of this thread.

― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, April 28, 2013 6:52 AM (32 minutes ago)

yeah, amazing

still not true in most work environments

― 乒乓, Sunday, April 28, 2013 9:54 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

school, too. i went to suburban farmville maryland middle school and there were maybe 10 kids in my year that weren't white.

(out of 200-250)

there's plenty of v segregated work around if you want it

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/27/no-rich-child-left-behind/