privilege as a meme

i get you zach, that makes sense. "institutional oppressions that carry a history and a body count" is a v good way of characterizing the distinction.

was slip-sliding in my mind from the specific kind of privilege that's at issue in this thread to unearned privilege in general

the "body count" thing is a fairly common marker ime

yeah, i shouldn't need the reminder, but it's late, the seas are high

maybe i can't parse what here is all strictly american or w/e, is that a thing here

i agree it's dangerous to conflate those two types of privilege. but i wish there was a way to at the same time be sensitive to both, and also not conflate them.

what's the huge value in distinguishing btwn the two, from the POV of the individual who feels they're experieng the oppression?

Guys whose dads didn't watch football with them.

great thread

love seeing elmo and mordy agree about something even for a minute

what's the huge value in distinguishing btwn the two, from the POV of the individual who feels they're experieng the oppression?

the political dimension. the oppression of (supposedly) "ugly" people by a society that unfairly favors the (supposedly) "attractive" may be a very real thing, but it's hard to combat or frame in political terms. it has no body count, and the groups involved have no organizational structure or cultural commonality. it's hard to draw a connection between this sort of entitlement/oppression and larger institutional systems. therefore, it doesn't make sense to construct our framing of political "privilege" to include this sort of thing. not at this point, anyway...

xp

and i'm not saying that bullying doesn't suck for people and that it's a great way to go, but i can tell you as someone who was bullied more than most kids as a pubescent and as someone who has dealt with extreme often-body-shame-related depression, i still have it way easier than a lot of people i know! call me ugly and maybe i'll still feel bummed out but tomorrow i still won't get rejected from the job because of my name on the resume, still won't suffer sexual harassment every day there, still not get stopped and frisked on the walk home.

my being bullied doesn't come as an addition or as a factor in other bigger aspects of my potential shit-taking, it wasn't the same for me as kids who were bullied for being gay, for being disabled, for being a person of color, for being fat (which many people including me do consider an oppression), etc. i agree that invisible disorders can make the distinction harder, but again, there's rarely any of these situations in which people are shamed/bullied for only the way they dress or their lack of social grace. and frankly having suicidal depression still doesn't mean people don't have the right to give you shit after you do something racist or sexist or etc

*still won't

lol contendo i'm sure there's an Ugly Dudes Anonymous group somewhere on the internet

i remember a tumblr where a dude was saying how oppressed he was because he had a "small white dick"

lol contendo i'm sure there's an Ugly Dudes Anonymous group somewhere on the internet

yeah, and i'm sure it links directly to a hundred misandry blogs :(

a "small white dick"

sounds like a tinned delicacy

A few years ago I saw a man being banned from a grocery store because it had a no big bags policy and he wouldnt leave his bag at the counter. He was not cooperative so the police came and he made an example of me and pointed out I had a really big bag in the store and he said THIS IS ALL BECAUSE IM A GAY WHITE MAN! I'm not sure where this fits in I'm just reminded of it.

i haven't slept in 4 days and now regret everything i posted here.

Posts that effortlessly sum up the spirit of ilx

yup!

queeft

the problem with the MRAs are that they blame feminism and women for their unhappiness/oppression and are misogynists. i don't doubt them for a second when they say their lives suck, they feel unattractive, they don't know how to interact with women, they feel oppressed, etc. the issue is that self-pity is really unappealing, as is misogyny, so it's easy to ignore/disdain them. but i think they are suffering, for what it's worth. they aren't an oppressed group, but as individuals they are dysfunctional, and that must totally suck. i don't really know what to do with that knowledge though.

repress it and watch television

no one is going to tell you not to have compassion for whoever you want to have compassion for, it's a question of whether or not your standards should be shared by everyone else

I have compassion for all kinds of shitty people who do bad things but I support the right of tumbles to make fun of men's rights activists

Haha tumbles. That's my next cat name

"tumbles" like it was some kind of blog clown

Otm!

men's rights tumbles

i someone should add the option to vote "tumbles" for the "what to you call your significant other" poll.

We are going to have a little review session now, because it seems like this totally great link has already slipped everyone's mind. YOU MIGHT BE EXPERIENCING SOME UNEARNED ADVANTAGES IF THE FOLLOWING ARE MOSTLY OR FREQUENTLY TRUE FOR YOU.

1. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.

3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

6. When I am told about our national heritage or about civilization, I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.

10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color, who constitute the worlds' majority, without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

18. I can be sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge" I will be facing a person of my race.

19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

21. I can go home from most meetings or organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

23. I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me.

25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.

26. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in flesh color that more or less matches my skin.

ADVANCED EXERCISE: You may also want to re-read, this time substituting "sex" or "sexual preference" or "gender performance" for the word "race" in some places it appears. If you think of other things to substitute, answers on a 3x5 card at the end of class.

27. the "flesh" colored crayon looks like my uncle dan

oh god, the memories, they're coming back

thank you again, io

"flesh-colored" sounds so macabre.

I don't know if that's a zing or a hi-5 but you're welcome.

hi-5

but really I was referring to your link/list, the DN is just a bonus

Oh, link: http://ted.coe.wayne.edu/ele3600/mcintosh.html AGAIN.

Some of those are really fucking stupid and myopic in their own ways. And some of them can be quite easily flipped around. But in the aggregate, sure, fine.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0fe8a835da91659fff2bb0e05f09b8d0/tumblr_ml3vzbvkHi1s8gblro1_500.png

what is the "ring ring ring ring patriarchy" comment supposed to be addressing/responding to?

bananaphones

That got away from me in the press but thank you for bringing it back: what LG said is completely bonkers to me. I know a signif number of ppl personally who grew up with welfare, food stamps, etc, who now are professionals, have advanced degrees, and are fully integrated into my work and social circles with everyone else. And I know there are more than a couple of ilxors who grew up poor and disadvantaged in multiple ways and yet are educated, media savvy, internet-using moderns just like everyone else. I do not recognize my own experience anywhere in his account.

Maybe social mobility is more alive in the US, I mean in terms of journalism which is my main area since I grew up, the BBC is most of my career and is relatively diverse in terms of gender, race, religion and sexuality also disability, white men are in the minority in the places I worked, but class wise it's quite skewed towards middle class and up, I think it's probably a lot harder to for positive discrimination to be employed in terms of class, not sure if that's ever been done. I've never seen a form that sought to positively discriminate by class.

Journalism is the field with the least social mobility iirc. It's probably impossible to positively discriminate by class but much more can be done to stop actively discriminating against less wealthy people through the use of internships, etc. Access to good universities is also important and social background can be addressed there.

i answered 'no' to all those questions o_O

lmao @ those poor oppressed misogynist nerds, we need to check our cool privilege and have some empathy for their resentful horniness

internships & public schools

http://gawker.com/5994318/the-knifes-new-album-is-sort-of-the-accidental-racist-of-dark-electro+acoustic-experimental-music

privilege as a meme