privilege as a meme

But if there are these places, ILX is surely to god not one of them - the very last thing that happens when someone calls out privilege here is that anyone goes "ah no fair point I'll switch to listening mode"

heh that's a very fair point!

even outside of ilx, i think you can glean a lot about a person posting on the internet just by the /way/ they're framing something, the language they use, the hidden assumptions present in their text

i did make the point that things like religion/sexuality/background etc, these just aren't on view, especially IRL.

Well yeah - again perhaps a sheltered life, but I've never seen anyone get called out for unmodified privilege, it's always along a specific axis.

it's usually unmodified ime.

also as an aside, isn't it possible people behave in a way that transcends their background, positively or negatively?

You are calling for ppl to do exactly what the exercise of "checking [your] privilege" is designed to do. You just don't want to call it that, for...some reason?

Because IME I've only seen it used as an inflammatory pejorative, and not for that purpose at all.

My experience is that (done right, and someone will always be doing it wrong somewhere on the internet), discussing privilege can go softer than sexism and racism - even if you start with "that's racist" it turns into "You're racist" and then it's all about the sacred mysteries of their inner soul; "You're displaying white privilege" can be taken as a criticism of the circumstances that have shaped the target, and gives them an out for acknowledging it and deflecting away from themselves.

Not that making someone saying dumb things on the internet comfortable is necessarily society's greatest purpose, of course.

"You're displaying white privilege" is an appallingly smug and counterproductive way of making a point.

It would genuinely be less insulting to call someone a racist.

seems fine to me. more specific.

no way is that more insulting than calling someone a racist.

Yeah I was joking about that bit, but I still think "white privilege" is an unhelpful way of putting it.

Oh for real? Do you suggest that the exact same point just be made with different words?

i'm gonna attribute that to a difference across the pond xp

dayo, race, sexuality, gender, social class, religion, upbringing, schooling, i'm sure there are plenty other reasons somebody can be privileged over another person. i'm trying not to be restrictive about my definition at all.

i am decidedly non-dayo privileged :(

Because IME I've only seen it used as an inflammatory pejorative, and not for that purpose at all.

― Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:38 AM (11 seconds ago)

here on ILX, i've occasionally had my privilege called out. the context of the usage has ranged from enlightening engagement (nitsuh, surprise) to vitriolic bullying (ahem...), but i chalk that up more to vagaries of character than any basic deficiency in the world or concept. some people will abuse any tool you give them.

Oh for real? Do you suggest that the exact same point just be made with different words?

Yes, basically. If you want someone to take your point on board it's better to make it in a way that isn't immediately going to put them on the defensive.

some tools are also easier to abuse, surely? xpost

But as soon as those words become identified as being commonly used to make this same unwelcome (to the listener) point, they'll be stigmatized too. Do we then change to a new set of terms?

I mean this isn't even an argument, this is people saying, the point that these words are used to make is unwelcome.

Okay, fine, "Do you think you might be showing some white privilege?" vs "Do you think that might be a bit racist?". There's ways to make the same point which are even gentler, but again there's a balance between that and "how much time do I want to spending considering the feelings of the guy defending the golliwog he had as a kid?"

this is the thread of missing ahem...

i think there's a problem in assuming any given word or phrase has the power to make a person think the way you want them to think. you can't, even when it's something important at stake like having equal rights. all you can do is put yourself out there and hope people will listen. the listener is one the making the choice to listen, and if you act like that's not the case then you're going to get push back.

all i want to know is, if i do the dishes and take out the trash all week, can i borrow the car on Friday night?

this thread is pretty depressing and dumm tbh

despite my internet glibness i'm pretty aware of my privilege and actually use the term about myself all the time irl. it's obviously a vital lens to see the world through and understanding that your experiences and perspectives aren't universal is pretty crucial to civilized conversation with anyone smart who's out of undergrad. i m/l agree with the good guys/gals itt

the only time i *rme* a little at "privilege" is when it's used (exclusively on the internet ime, which i guess is why noted anti-feminist lagoon started this thread) not as an eye-opener but as a trump card, later in the conversation rather than earlier. i completely acknowledge that this is *plays world's smallest violin* but sometimes people who are privileged and are aware of their privilege and have made that known might come to a different good-faith conclusion, after careful consideration, than someone else. and that's OK sometimes as long as you keep in mind that your privilege may have influenced your thinking; it doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong or that your perspective is automatically invalid - its context and how it came to be just have to be understood

ok, this thread.

that's what I'm sayin

so just for the record i don't think "misuse is common", it's not an epidemic or anything and i don't feel oppressed

i mean

tbh this is the sort of thread that makes me realise why some people on the ~social justice internet~ are assholes about the word, it's borne out of pure frustration

you explain what privilege is, you explain that it's quite simple and it's not designed to be an insult, and that it's rooted in power relations not a judgment on you personally, and yet people - usually pretty privileged people - just go on and on and on trying to discredit the entire concept. and it's like y'know what fuck you it's not actually up to you to hijack or dismiss this concept.

and it's totally okay for people to be a bit "huh, what" when they first come across ideas like intersectionality and privilege etc etc because guess what that's our educational privilege that enables us to throw them around like they're nothing, but the pig-headed insistence that they're fundamentally unhelpful concepts deserves absolutely nothing more than an eyeroll

^ gets it

ok, this thread.

― ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:07 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's like...EXACTLY like every other thread where str8 white men (ALWAYS str8 white men, sometimes str8 white women) are faced with the concept of privilege and realise their assumptions might be a tiny bit challenged or that they might have to SIT THE FUCK DOWN for once

wait stop you're blowing my straight white mind, I might have to sit down

checking one's privilege is REALLY EASY to do and not a thing that should make you feel oppressed. it's like, idk, proof-reading to check that something you've written makes logical sense.

pretty sure lag**n orchestrated this thread as some kind of performative commentary of privilege in action

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/4067210/2/stock-photo-4067210-red-and-white-checked-pattern.jpg

every time I open this thread I want to make a pun

I'm white btw

i'm white too btw

it's like...EXACTLY like every other thread where str8 white men (ALWAYS str8 white men, sometimes str8 white women) are faced with the concept of privilege and realise their assumptions might be a tiny bit challenged or that they might have to SIT THE FUCK DOWN for once

if you mean me with these few posts i don't think it's particularly fair. many people make assumptions or lack self-awareness, a difficult point to be righteous about.

when people say "check your privilege" do they mean it like "spot check" or like "coat check"? honest q.

the very last thing that happens when someone calls out privilege here is that anyone goes "ah no fair point I'll switch to listening mode"

Exhibits A - ZZ enclosed.

pretty sure that does happen, obv not with everyone on every thread and it's the people who keep yelling who control the discourse & memory of it.

when people say "check your privilege" do they mean it like "spot check" or like "coat check"? honest q.

obv it's the former -- like, "take a step back & look at who you are and your place in the greater universe vs. the people around you" -- but based on the reactions itt I think a lot of people are taking it as the latter

wait I think I just horribly botched the meaning of "spot check," what am I doing itt & in life

how would you even coat check your privilege

"I grant my social perks and boons to you, poor disadvantaged soul, for the duration of this conversation; if you return them unscathed there may be a tip"

Isn't that basically the plot of Trading Places?

I'll get me privilege

I made that pun already

how would you even coat check your privilege

by taking off your privilege and leaving it in a closet near the door.