privilege as a meme

maybe the universe doesn't even exist man

" which just kind of seems like too much of a truism to have to even point out"

And yet.

so, um, what's... the point of identifying privilege?

legit question, i'm actually confused. i get the impression that the lower classes, activist types, hold the view that if people would just open their eyes to their privilege, they would throw it all away in disgust and everything would be hunky dory. but obv that's not the case. seems to me like it only just results in people becoming these smarmy self-aware vampire weekend types who use privilege awareness as a weapon and a tool to solidify their class status?

seems to me like privilege discourse ppl seem to have this intrinsic expectation that the privileged should do more than merely identify and remember their privilege... i get the impression they're expected to throw it away. which is not really possible i think?

the entire foundation of privilege discourse is flawed if you make the simple assumption that people aren't naturally inclined toward social justice, right?

oh ya, and i also had that moment where i realized i wasn't upper class. it came embarrassingly late. i figured i was upper class cuz my parents paid 10K a year for private school for me and my sis, not chump change, sure. but they like had loans and stuff for a while. when i confronted my dad in my teens with this awful truth, he gave me this hilariously "wtf" look that has stuck with me since.

my undergrad was pretty middle class but then i went to law school and was like oh, ok, so this is the upper class huh

i get the impression they're expected to throw it away. which is not really possible i think?

What makes you think that? Social attitudes can change fast.

Assumption #1: lower classes = activist types. Really, dude?

"if people would just open their eyes to their privilege, they would throw it all away in disgust and everything would be hunky dory."
Realization is the bare minimum here and yet ppl with the most advantages in the system have the most invested in even denying that there's a problem. There's a reason "fight the system" has the word "fight" in it!

it doesn't fight the system though, it's individualistic. it's focused on the behavior of individuals in conversations and stuff. i think it is good not to be an asshole every day and the privilege analysis is good for that.

But sometimes in talking about it you reach an audience of more than one. Like itt!

the word is used by too small a group of people not to have a ring of hypocrisy.

THANK YOU.

xxxxxxpost

privilege as a mame

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02221/angela3_2221072b.jpg

One place where I feel like the word is really apt is in "mansplaining" type situations, where, e.g., a woman tries to explain why it's not nice to constantly have her looks commented on, and some dude (inevitably) says "WTF are you talking about? I would love to get compliments all the time!" Well yeah, because you are in the privileged position of not having so many people objectify you by default. Same with the "if I were poor, I'd just go to the local library and read all the books about business and shine shoes for quarters blah blah" type comments. I feel like that's what the concept is good for, pointing out that sort of obliviousness. When it turns into a negation of all complaints is when it bothers me, it becomes like that grating mom who says "well children are starving in africa" as a response to everything.

Like the point of understanding one's privilege is to recognize the hidden ways it operates in your life and advantages you/disadvantages others, not to engage in denial of one's feelings.

"privilege" = another piece in that Game nitsuh wrote about in that vampire wknd blog thing, basically the only people who ever use this word in earnest discussion are college ppl trying to one up each other by showing how grateful and worldly and learnéd they are in comparison to their entitled, unworthy peers.

― sleepingbag, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 2:25 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this sums it up. I mean, I think it's okay as a personal check, kept to oneself, and the intentions of the discourse are worth considering, but whenever invoked it usually seems to be more as a power move, or as a way to take out one's frustrations over the fact that contemporary (net) culture isn't going to be as enlightened as to adopt the same sensitive jargon as college conditioned one to expect from the world, thus all the pointless language policing and 'social justice' from a confused few in tumblr-land

It's very interesting that some ppl it think talking abt privilege is so annoying and pls just keep it to yourself lest u bore us.

I didn't go to grad skool though so maybe I'm just not equipped for the discourse.

did you not recognize it because they didnt live up to your preconceptions of the super wealthy or what

― lag∞n, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:58 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

been thinking about this and i think that i didnt really notice this because i've never been taught what the superwealthy are.... and in college i think its a bit easier to hide the badges of yr wealth, even the rich kids can slum it. i think looking back, what gave ppl away would be how often they went out to eat, maybe, or that they would go on vacations for spring break. but by and large i think college kids wear sweats and flip flops no matter if theyre rich or poor

so, um, what's... the point of identifying privilege?

― cocktail onion (fennel cartwright)

sorting things out is intrinsically useful, i think. the discourse around "privilege" reflects attempts to parse and describe complex systems, and i think it's best to treat those attempts as sincere.

on a more personal level, i've occasionally been called out for expressing attitudes and opinions that seem to reflect my position of relative privilege. more often than not, i've found such interventions helpful (in the long run, anyway). of course, i've also been badgered by angry maniacs, but i don't hold that against either privilege as a concept or those who invoke it.

another thing i think that the ocncept of privilege is good for is... just reminding people that their own experience is not universal. so often the narrative is like - i did this, it worked for me, why can't it work for you? and if you like took just ilke even one second and placed yourself in the other perons shoes youd see why it wouldnt... but people dont even do that. its a good way for maybe making people externalize themselves from themselves

I'll check me privilege

my friend lives in this punk house where people are hyper-aware of privilege, apparently the straight white guys who live there will often preface things they say with by saying "cis-male," as in, like, "take this with a grain of salt just coming from the most privileged pov possible." that seemed pretty crazy to me

like once i was talking to this girl a party about the problems of the world and she finally was just all trust me ive studied this a lot and its all the patriarchy, and i was like you are going to be very disappointed when the patriarchy is finally smashed

lol lagoon

that seems like a pretty cool setup to me

punk house

i dont really believe in 'logic' unless youre talking about like first order or symbolic logic or something

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:34 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, word. you can do a lot of creepy things with logic

like look in people's windows at night?

Oh whatever, god forbid straight white men acknowledge that their viewpoint might not be universal, how burdensome and ridiculous. C'mon.

Sry, out posting on phone so restricted to short asides.

yeah... flopson, speaking as an internet friend, i feel like u could do well to check yr privs a bit here on ilx

PRIVILEGE HOUSE M.D.

cold open with guy with brain thing

*massive attack song*

hospital boss: "privilege house md, you are abusing vicodin + also yr status as a mostly able-bodied educated white american male"
privilege house: "Everybody dies. is it everybody lies? dies, also i can speak british + play the piano buy my blues albium "
hospital: "i love you privilege house"

Also u were rich

― rust in pieces (darraghmac), Tuesday, April 9, 2013 6:34 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well yeah, in the broadest sense, that was my point. At the same time, I didn't and couldn't do the kinds of things I later learned were common at private colleges -- travel abroad, skiing, golf, tennis, expensive shopping, cocaine, high-end clubs. I rented a $300/month room in a house, wore thrift shop clothing, mostly relied on campus activities for recreation, worked summers and odd extra hours for spending money, etc. Someone like me could go to a private college and feel very ordinary and middle class, and you hear exactly those kinds of claims from people who do. I'm saying that because I didn't, I actually understood that I was pretty privileged.

"privilege" = another piece in that Game nitsuh wrote about in that vampire wknd blog thing, basically the only people who ever use this word in earnest discussion are college ppl trying to one up each other by showing how grateful and worldly and learnéd they are in comparison to their entitled, unworthy peers.

― sleepingbag, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:25 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^I think this, the most.

Like, if you are hungry, or poor, or have people depending on you, or are constantly having your life threatened, you don't have the luxury to think about what it all means, whether you are privileged or not, etc.

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, April 9, 2013 7:50 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

literal lols at these posts btw. if this is what u think privilege is about, then idk, maybe go post on reddit or something

Oh whatever, god forbid straight white men acknowledge that their viewpoint might not be universal, how burdensome and ridiculous. C'mon.

Sry, out posting on phone so restricted to short asides.

― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:25 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i've never experienced it firsthand so idk maybe they pull it off it but it just seems awkward. i guess "crazy" was an exaggeration. i'm obviously not against the idea of acknowledging privileged viewpoints etc, just like to think there are a more elegant ways of expressing it than /!\ disclaimer: white man talkin here /!\

"I'm too busy starving to think about privilege"

yeah, really skewered the concept there

I feel like negotiating privilege so as not to "____splain" is more about listening, and making sure that whatever you have to say is based on testimony from people actually living the issue. The "take this with a grain of salt" thing sounds really tedious and stultifying.

xp - yeah, the whole "lol, this is something only a few relatively privileged college students talk about" angle seems awfully myopic. all it really communicates is a limited range of experience.

basically the only people who ever use this word in earnest discussion are college ppl trying to one up each other by showing how grateful and worldly and learnéd they are in comparison to their entitled, unworthy peers.

― sleepingbag, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:25 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is unfortunate if true, but i suspect it's not. well, maybe it's true on blogs or on the internet. or at college. but i *do* think you have to be pretty humble about it when u do get called. like, i think there's more than a little victimization in the mix if your reaction to being called out on your privilege is "you're just trying to one-up me & show off how grateful & worldly you are."

*called out

yeah... flopson, speaking as an internet friend, i feel like u could do well to check yr privs a bit here on ilx

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:27 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not sure if this is a joke but if not i'd be curious to know what this is in ref to. it's been a while since the last time i've fp'd frogbs, tbh

well im mainly thinking about the time u defended that sexist complex article that was 'does your girl listen to too much rap' and u were all like 'lol guys its just joeks bruvs'

ah right, k. iirc i found like 6/10 of those to be pretty horrendous tbf

but ya i admit my post in the thread was a cop out. rap blogs were really annoying that week/month with all the chief keef stuff, think i was just p exasperated with all the self-righteous indignation, and putting that kind of energy into a complex listicle is such a scraping the bottle of the barrel

ah ok almost didn't post cos i doubt i have anything at all to gain here but wth
just know i am definitely not doing the whole long internet argument thing

literal lols at these posts btw. if this is what u think privilege is about, then idk, maybe go post on reddit or something

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:35 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if that is not what every discussion about privilege on ilx, including this one, has boiled down to, i will eat my (v. fancy) hat.

i don't disagree with many/any of the underlying ideas of talking about privilege -- essentially no, life isn't fair; one certainly can have many more or better opportunities depending on who, what gender, what color, what class, etc., as well as where they are; people have vastly different experiences, and so on; it's specifically the framing of it as a contest and the way the word is deployed, woo let's identify who is privileged/more privileged so we can tell them so, that i think drives all these conversations to shit. i mean, look, no doubt i take it personally + take offense to the way this word gets thrown around b/c i definitely identify with 'the privileged' (despite my many complexities :) ), as apparently a bunch of other people here do, i've been successfully labeled, and it seems to be a problematic and pejorative label... so now what? what do i do? what are the 'privileged' actually being told by that label? i'm not sure why part of this is that it is assumed that i am not aware of how lucky i am and need a word/label to tell me. i am pretty well aware, and definitely very grateful to be who i am all in all. so what else?

long story short, i guess if i feel privileged enough then maybe i have nothing useful to add in this sphere and i should just not read privilege threads? i'm definitely never going to reddit, but i'd be happy to not participate if the whole point of identifying privilege is to say that voices like mine have been too loud in the culture -- is that the point?

"privileged" is only a problematic/pejorative label if you... idk, have that coming? liek no one ever says "you're privileged and you should feel like shit about it, i just felt like saying that carry on", in almost every context i've ever seen ppl have used some variation of "check yr privilege" in response to someone who is acting in a way that makes them appear dickishly unaware of it

when you're being a shithead idk maybe ppl are giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you're simply unaware, the point is if you're already well aware then you wouldn't have done something to invoke that dreaded word anyway, but idk you're talking like you just walk down the street and ppl yell "PRIVILEGED" at you all the time

History of this phrase's use on ILX is surprisingly scant: Marc Loi was there first in 2009, in the last line of his his mindblowing "Can't Rape the Willing" essay ("check your privilege, because it may not always be what it seems," ominous), then two years pass with no uses before zachylon employs it to bitch about the 99% / Occupy movement and the rest is history.

please let's bring that back

brb leaving forever

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2C%20%22check%20your%20privilege%22&cmpt=q

i definitely identify with 'the privileged' (despite my many complexities :) ), as apparently a bunch of other people here do, i've been successfully labeled, and it seems to be a problematic and pejorative label... so now what? what do i do? what are the 'privileged' actually being told by that label?

i think you're missing the substance of the discussion in reducing it so entirely to the act of labeling people. sure, "privileged" sometimes gets used that way, as a cheap dismissal of unwelcome voices. that's the point at which further discussion becomes all but impossible, and it sucks. but good ideas always get put to bad use somewhere, and i think "privilege" remains a good idea. it's often invoked when discussing the ways in which our basic assumptions can reflect our cultural position, perhaps in ways we don't realize. i find that useful, though i don't always immediately welcome the criticism.

you ask "what do i do?" the only answer i can give is "think about it some." it's best not to dwell defensively on the idea that you've been labeled pejoratively. it's been pointed out that you're speaking and thinking from a position of relative privilege. no more, no less. if social justice matters to you, you might want to spend some time thinking about the implications.

ime "check your privilege" has usually been used as a sort of "the first step is admitting you have a problem" thing

also ime no one in the world says "check your privilege" anymore with any sincerity, once it caught on and became a joke buzzword (the big bump in H2's graph up there has to be like at least 70% ironic usage) ppl abandoned it, ppl i follow anyway, and this sentence is prob more relevant to the thread at hand than the first one