privilege as a meme

You can look it up, it'll be a more complete explan because I don't know the crit theory specifics but I understand it to be about the network of all different kinds of discrimination against the combinations of things that ppl are: non-white, non-male, non-rich, non-American, non-educated, etc. This is why it's not a hierarchy in which a person loses by being more "priviliged" than someone else. I envision intersectionality as a Tron-like grid world where everyone is at a node on intersecting lines of being a little better off here and a little worse there.

So if someone is like, I think by virtue of where your node is, you're not the person who has the most at stake here or who is the most insightful about what we're talking about, they're not accusing you of a personal failing, just chill out for a sec.

"privilege" = another piece in that Game nitsuh wrote about in that vampire wknd blog thing, basically the only people who ever use this word in earnest discussion are college ppl trying to one up each other by showing how grateful and worldly and learnéd they are in comparison to their entitled, unworthy peers.

Isn't the idea that, being privileged, I'm listened to in ways that less privileged people are not? So, whatever the validity of what I say, I am obligated to abstain from speech if speaking right now would contribute to other voices being ignored?

― lazulum, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:34 PM (21 minutes ago)

from, um, certain past ile discussions, i'd gathered that part of the problem (wr2 privilege and rationalism) is that fence-sitting, devil-advocating rationalism is seen as a favored stance of the privileged. this is especially true when such rationalism questions ideas and voices that actively seek to disempower privilege.

like: "if you were less privileged, you would understand more clearly the need for passionate partisanship." and/or: "...you'd see why your blithe interest in 'just exploring the idea' might be kind of offensive in itself." all of which makes sense to me.

thanks in orbit! I've seen the word used before and I figured it somehow related to the different dimensions of privilege but that gives me a much clearer picture.

Oh god I forgot non-straight and non-cis which are pretty much two of the huge ones. O well, you all get the idea.

Tbf fair, those who possess privilege and property have the most to lose from every harebrained bit of partisan passion. It's a little daft to show up at the chateau and ask the castellan to have the decency to shoot himself so you don't have to.

well sure, the privileged do have a lot to loose, are sometimes serried before pocked walls, etc. nevertheless, the basic condition of privilege exists in the casual acceptance of social power. therefore, the privileged may be given to a degree of intellectual disengagement when discussing the world's problems. whatever the situation, they've still got table service.

it's funny when i was in the academy... i mean college... i never took any of these social justice / race type classes, i just read books by dead white men, wasn't really alive / aware of these things. now looking abck, and in talking to friends about people we knew at college, i have realized that literally everybody i know from college came from horrendous wealth

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:55 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

having gone to public middle/high school with a lot of pretty poor kids, and then a state university (and not one of the UVA/Michigan variety), I actually got the impression that my family was pretty rich. Which on world and even America terms is true I guess, but I just didn't have any sense of the kind of wealth that one would see at private colleges. I figured "I don't absolutely have to work while in school" plus "my parents bought me a six-year-old used toyota corolla" = rich. That was probably ultimately a good and healthy way to see things.

Also u were rich

fuck the rich

class anxiety about zunes

those were the best -- i want a zune tablet

I'm using a zunelet right now

yeah that for sure is the ideal outcome, but i think to some extent it can me undermined via attachment to the concept of privilege itself, like once i was talking to this girl a party about the problems of the world and she finally was just all trust me ive studied this a lot and its all the patriarchy, and i was like you are going to be very disappointed when the patriarchy is finally smashed

― lag∞n, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:24 PM (2 hours ago)

wow dude u have no game

Or vice-versa, maybe that was quite wise of him.

classic neg

Or genuine rebuff

So if someone is like, I think by virtue of where your node is, you're not the person who has the most at stake here or who is the most insightful about what we're talking about, they're not accusing you of a personal failing, just chill out for a sec.

― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:21 PM (1 hour ago)

nabisco (RIP) used to describe something similar where straight white dudes were like the middle of a set of concentric circles and as your identity was gradually less "normal" you were represented by bigger circles

i think the privilege meme is what led me to stop reading blogs

"privilege" = another piece in that Game nitsuh wrote about in that vampire wknd blog thing, basically the only people who ever use this word in earnest discussion are college ppl trying to one up each other by showing how grateful and worldly and learnéd they are in comparison to their entitled, unworthy peers.

― sleepingbag, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:25 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^I think this, the most.

Like, if you are hungry, or poor, or have people depending on you, or are constantly having your life threatened, you don't have the luxury to think about what it all means, whether you are privileged or not, etc.

xp yes except exactly the opposite - what intersectionality is getting at is that there isn't ones aside of "how far from normal"

xp to Adam that's def. not my experience, most of the people I know talking about privilege are the ones who are actually feeling the negative effects of it. Obviously not a complete cross-section of them...

I will grant that if you're (not necessarily hungry or poor but) uneducated then you may not have the tools to think about it in these terms.

Mayb one of the difficulties w the privilege discourse is that the ppl equipped to discuss it are often not the most affected. That might seem like a catch 22 thing but can also be a strength if those with the tools are aware that their voices shouldn't be the loudest and can step back and support.

I'm kind of on one of these uh awareness plans to recognize my own societal advantages and curb my impulses that come from being accustomed to being heard.

fwiw yeah i specifically was referring to usage of the word "privilege" in what i was saying. clearly the systems of the world have worked to advantage and disadvantage many, which just kind of seems like too much of a truism to have to even point out, but "privilege" itself just gets pejoratively, almost exclusively by those who are themselves privileged, kind of reminiscent of "h*pster"

only one part of the problem is the people who use it all the time. i think it is actually a wrong way to analyze the universe. do i have a better idea no, but since i am privileged i am just gonna say things and not support them.

fair

It's not meant to be a way to analyse the universe, might be the problem there.

maybe the universe doesn't even exist man

" which just kind of seems like too much of a truism to have to even point out"

And yet.

so, um, what's... the point of identifying privilege?

legit question, i'm actually confused. i get the impression that the lower classes, activist types, hold the view that if people would just open their eyes to their privilege, they would throw it all away in disgust and everything would be hunky dory. but obv that's not the case. seems to me like it only just results in people becoming these smarmy self-aware vampire weekend types who use privilege awareness as a weapon and a tool to solidify their class status?

seems to me like privilege discourse ppl seem to have this intrinsic expectation that the privileged should do more than merely identify and remember their privilege... i get the impression they're expected to throw it away. which is not really possible i think?

the entire foundation of privilege discourse is flawed if you make the simple assumption that people aren't naturally inclined toward social justice, right?

oh ya, and i also had that moment where i realized i wasn't upper class. it came embarrassingly late. i figured i was upper class cuz my parents paid 10K a year for private school for me and my sis, not chump change, sure. but they like had loans and stuff for a while. when i confronted my dad in my teens with this awful truth, he gave me this hilariously "wtf" look that has stuck with me since.

my undergrad was pretty middle class but then i went to law school and was like oh, ok, so this is the upper class huh

i get the impression they're expected to throw it away. which is not really possible i think?

What makes you think that? Social attitudes can change fast.

Assumption #1: lower classes = activist types. Really, dude?

"if people would just open their eyes to their privilege, they would throw it all away in disgust and everything would be hunky dory."
Realization is the bare minimum here and yet ppl with the most advantages in the system have the most invested in even denying that there's a problem. There's a reason "fight the system" has the word "fight" in it!

it doesn't fight the system though, it's individualistic. it's focused on the behavior of individuals in conversations and stuff. i think it is good not to be an asshole every day and the privilege analysis is good for that.

But sometimes in talking about it you reach an audience of more than one. Like itt!

the word is used by too small a group of people not to have a ring of hypocrisy.

THANK YOU.

xxxxxxpost

privilege as a mame

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02221/angela3_2221072b.jpg

One place where I feel like the word is really apt is in "mansplaining" type situations, where, e.g., a woman tries to explain why it's not nice to constantly have her looks commented on, and some dude (inevitably) says "WTF are you talking about? I would love to get compliments all the time!" Well yeah, because you are in the privileged position of not having so many people objectify you by default. Same with the "if I were poor, I'd just go to the local library and read all the books about business and shine shoes for quarters blah blah" type comments. I feel like that's what the concept is good for, pointing out that sort of obliviousness. When it turns into a negation of all complaints is when it bothers me, it becomes like that grating mom who says "well children are starving in africa" as a response to everything.

Like the point of understanding one's privilege is to recognize the hidden ways it operates in your life and advantages you/disadvantages others, not to engage in denial of one's feelings.

"privilege" = another piece in that Game nitsuh wrote about in that vampire wknd blog thing, basically the only people who ever use this word in earnest discussion are college ppl trying to one up each other by showing how grateful and worldly and learnéd they are in comparison to their entitled, unworthy peers.

― sleepingbag, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 2:25 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this sums it up. I mean, I think it's okay as a personal check, kept to oneself, and the intentions of the discourse are worth considering, but whenever invoked it usually seems to be more as a power move, or as a way to take out one's frustrations over the fact that contemporary (net) culture isn't going to be as enlightened as to adopt the same sensitive jargon as college conditioned one to expect from the world, thus all the pointless language policing and 'social justice' from a confused few in tumblr-land

It's very interesting that some ppl it think talking abt privilege is so annoying and pls just keep it to yourself lest u bore us.

I didn't go to grad skool though so maybe I'm just not equipped for the discourse.

did you not recognize it because they didnt live up to your preconceptions of the super wealthy or what

― lag∞n, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:58 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

been thinking about this and i think that i didnt really notice this because i've never been taught what the superwealthy are.... and in college i think its a bit easier to hide the badges of yr wealth, even the rich kids can slum it. i think looking back, what gave ppl away would be how often they went out to eat, maybe, or that they would go on vacations for spring break. but by and large i think college kids wear sweats and flip flops no matter if theyre rich or poor

so, um, what's... the point of identifying privilege?

― cocktail onion (fennel cartwright)

sorting things out is intrinsically useful, i think. the discourse around "privilege" reflects attempts to parse and describe complex systems, and i think it's best to treat those attempts as sincere.

on a more personal level, i've occasionally been called out for expressing attitudes and opinions that seem to reflect my position of relative privilege. more often than not, i've found such interventions helpful (in the long run, anyway). of course, i've also been badgered by angry maniacs, but i don't hold that against either privilege as a concept or those who invoke it.

another thing i think that the ocncept of privilege is good for is... just reminding people that their own experience is not universal. so often the narrative is like - i did this, it worked for me, why can't it work for you? and if you like took just ilke even one second and placed yourself in the other perons shoes youd see why it wouldnt... but people dont even do that. its a good way for maybe making people externalize themselves from themselves

I'll check me privilege

my friend lives in this punk house where people are hyper-aware of privilege, apparently the straight white guys who live there will often preface things they say with by saying "cis-male," as in, like, "take this with a grain of salt just coming from the most privileged pov possible." that seemed pretty crazy to me