privilege as a meme

xxxp I mean I understand why it seems like a race to be the bottommost person in the pile but a) I don't think that actually happens in a well-meaning discussion where ppl want to come closer together or closer to a goal together, and b) I think that conception shows that the person characterizing it doesn't understand what intersectionality is, for one thing, or what the whole awareness-increasing work is for.

pfft they should be giving me an ipod xp

yeah i mean the ipod thing just doesnt feel right

I have known very insecure and very rich people for whom an iPod would be the equivalent of buying someone a sandwich and who would parcel out presents to pals in ways that (would) shock us. It's pretty sad for all involved.

srsly dear rich friends just take us on vacations that what we want

what is intersectionality

i have this sweet ass chrome plugin called google dictionary check it out i use it all the time

http://i.imgur.com/WGcfS5h.png

Intersectionality? I wasn't even close t'her sectionality!

Sentences just will not stop

thanks lag∞n I just thought maybe people would have insights on this thread that would be more nuanced than a dictionary definition

ha yeah i tbf that blurb didnt really help me understand what intersectionality is, but still sweet plugin

You can look it up, it'll be a more complete explan because I don't know the crit theory specifics but I understand it to be about the network of all different kinds of discrimination against the combinations of things that ppl are: non-white, non-male, non-rich, non-American, non-educated, etc. This is why it's not a hierarchy in which a person loses by being more "priviliged" than someone else. I envision intersectionality as a Tron-like grid world where everyone is at a node on intersecting lines of being a little better off here and a little worse there.

So if someone is like, I think by virtue of where your node is, you're not the person who has the most at stake here or who is the most insightful about what we're talking about, they're not accusing you of a personal failing, just chill out for a sec.

"privilege" = another piece in that Game nitsuh wrote about in that vampire wknd blog thing, basically the only people who ever use this word in earnest discussion are college ppl trying to one up each other by showing how grateful and worldly and learnéd they are in comparison to their entitled, unworthy peers.

Isn't the idea that, being privileged, I'm listened to in ways that less privileged people are not? So, whatever the validity of what I say, I am obligated to abstain from speech if speaking right now would contribute to other voices being ignored?

― lazulum, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:34 PM (21 minutes ago)

from, um, certain past ile discussions, i'd gathered that part of the problem (wr2 privilege and rationalism) is that fence-sitting, devil-advocating rationalism is seen as a favored stance of the privileged. this is especially true when such rationalism questions ideas and voices that actively seek to disempower privilege.

like: "if you were less privileged, you would understand more clearly the need for passionate partisanship." and/or: "...you'd see why your blithe interest in 'just exploring the idea' might be kind of offensive in itself." all of which makes sense to me.

thanks in orbit! I've seen the word used before and I figured it somehow related to the different dimensions of privilege but that gives me a much clearer picture.

Oh god I forgot non-straight and non-cis which are pretty much two of the huge ones. O well, you all get the idea.

Tbf fair, those who possess privilege and property have the most to lose from every harebrained bit of partisan passion. It's a little daft to show up at the chateau and ask the castellan to have the decency to shoot himself so you don't have to.

well sure, the privileged do have a lot to loose, are sometimes serried before pocked walls, etc. nevertheless, the basic condition of privilege exists in the casual acceptance of social power. therefore, the privileged may be given to a degree of intellectual disengagement when discussing the world's problems. whatever the situation, they've still got table service.

it's funny when i was in the academy... i mean college... i never took any of these social justice / race type classes, i just read books by dead white men, wasn't really alive / aware of these things. now looking abck, and in talking to friends about people we knew at college, i have realized that literally everybody i know from college came from horrendous wealth

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:55 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

having gone to public middle/high school with a lot of pretty poor kids, and then a state university (and not one of the UVA/Michigan variety), I actually got the impression that my family was pretty rich. Which on world and even America terms is true I guess, but I just didn't have any sense of the kind of wealth that one would see at private colleges. I figured "I don't absolutely have to work while in school" plus "my parents bought me a six-year-old used toyota corolla" = rich. That was probably ultimately a good and healthy way to see things.

Also u were rich

fuck the rich

class anxiety about zunes

those were the best -- i want a zune tablet

I'm using a zunelet right now

yeah that for sure is the ideal outcome, but i think to some extent it can me undermined via attachment to the concept of privilege itself, like once i was talking to this girl a party about the problems of the world and she finally was just all trust me ive studied this a lot and its all the patriarchy, and i was like you are going to be very disappointed when the patriarchy is finally smashed

― lag∞n, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:24 PM (2 hours ago)

wow dude u have no game

Or vice-versa, maybe that was quite wise of him.

classic neg

Or genuine rebuff

So if someone is like, I think by virtue of where your node is, you're not the person who has the most at stake here or who is the most insightful about what we're talking about, they're not accusing you of a personal failing, just chill out for a sec.

― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:21 PM (1 hour ago)

nabisco (RIP) used to describe something similar where straight white dudes were like the middle of a set of concentric circles and as your identity was gradually less "normal" you were represented by bigger circles

i think the privilege meme is what led me to stop reading blogs

"privilege" = another piece in that Game nitsuh wrote about in that vampire wknd blog thing, basically the only people who ever use this word in earnest discussion are college ppl trying to one up each other by showing how grateful and worldly and learnéd they are in comparison to their entitled, unworthy peers.

― sleepingbag, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:25 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^I think this, the most.

Like, if you are hungry, or poor, or have people depending on you, or are constantly having your life threatened, you don't have the luxury to think about what it all means, whether you are privileged or not, etc.

xp yes except exactly the opposite - what intersectionality is getting at is that there isn't ones aside of "how far from normal"

xp to Adam that's def. not my experience, most of the people I know talking about privilege are the ones who are actually feeling the negative effects of it. Obviously not a complete cross-section of them...

I will grant that if you're (not necessarily hungry or poor but) uneducated then you may not have the tools to think about it in these terms.

Mayb one of the difficulties w the privilege discourse is that the ppl equipped to discuss it are often not the most affected. That might seem like a catch 22 thing but can also be a strength if those with the tools are aware that their voices shouldn't be the loudest and can step back and support.

I'm kind of on one of these uh awareness plans to recognize my own societal advantages and curb my impulses that come from being accustomed to being heard.

fwiw yeah i specifically was referring to usage of the word "privilege" in what i was saying. clearly the systems of the world have worked to advantage and disadvantage many, which just kind of seems like too much of a truism to have to even point out, but "privilege" itself just gets pejoratively, almost exclusively by those who are themselves privileged, kind of reminiscent of "h*pster"

only one part of the problem is the people who use it all the time. i think it is actually a wrong way to analyze the universe. do i have a better idea no, but since i am privileged i am just gonna say things and not support them.

fair

It's not meant to be a way to analyse the universe, might be the problem there.

maybe the universe doesn't even exist man

" which just kind of seems like too much of a truism to have to even point out"

And yet.

so, um, what's... the point of identifying privilege?

legit question, i'm actually confused. i get the impression that the lower classes, activist types, hold the view that if people would just open their eyes to their privilege, they would throw it all away in disgust and everything would be hunky dory. but obv that's not the case. seems to me like it only just results in people becoming these smarmy self-aware vampire weekend types who use privilege awareness as a weapon and a tool to solidify their class status?

seems to me like privilege discourse ppl seem to have this intrinsic expectation that the privileged should do more than merely identify and remember their privilege... i get the impression they're expected to throw it away. which is not really possible i think?

the entire foundation of privilege discourse is flawed if you make the simple assumption that people aren't naturally inclined toward social justice, right?

oh ya, and i also had that moment where i realized i wasn't upper class. it came embarrassingly late. i figured i was upper class cuz my parents paid 10K a year for private school for me and my sis, not chump change, sure. but they like had loans and stuff for a while. when i confronted my dad in my teens with this awful truth, he gave me this hilariously "wtf" look that has stuck with me since.

my undergrad was pretty middle class but then i went to law school and was like oh, ok, so this is the upper class huh

i get the impression they're expected to throw it away. which is not really possible i think?

What makes you think that? Social attitudes can change fast.

Assumption #1: lower classes = activist types. Really, dude?

"if people would just open their eyes to their privilege, they would throw it all away in disgust and everything would be hunky dory."
Realization is the bare minimum here and yet ppl with the most advantages in the system have the most invested in even denying that there's a problem. There's a reason "fight the system" has the word "fight" in it!

it doesn't fight the system though, it's individualistic. it's focused on the behavior of individuals in conversations and stuff. i think it is good not to be an asshole every day and the privilege analysis is good for that.

But sometimes in talking about it you reach an audience of more than one. Like itt!

the word is used by too small a group of people not to have a ring of hypocrisy.

THANK YOU.

xxxxxxpost

privilege as a mame

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02221/angela3_2221072b.jpg