privilege as a meme

does privilege cut into notions of american individualism? does it actually remind people that yes, you only got where u are becaues u stood on the shoulders of giants?

i was thinking about starting a thread called 'creating a language to talk about class in america' and i think that privilege in some ways acts as a proxy for talking about class in america

they are def intimately connected concepts

the narrative i've been hearing has never been put your head down and work hard, but rather hustle and angle your way in BAMN, and by and large i think it's accurate, if not particularly palatable advice. there are barriers in front of you if you play fair, so cheat.

does privilege cut into notions of american individualism? does it actually remind people that yes, you only got where u are becaues u stood on the shoulders of giants?

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:46 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

actually, it's funny how discussing privilege is kind of more necessary in America as an antidote to this kind of thinking. In a rigid class structure, it's hard to imagine telling the upper class "check your privilege." They'd be like "yeah no shit I'm privileged, I'm upper class." That doesn't mean you wouldn't need a language to discuss why that's unfair, but it's in America where people convince themselves they worked for everything they have.

yeah exactly

it's funny when i was in the academy... i mean college... i never took any of these social justice / race type classes, i just read books by dead white men, wasn't really alive / aware of these things. now looking abck, and in talking to friends about people we knew at college, i have realized that literally everybody i know from college came from horrendous wealth

hah

did you not recognize it because they didnt live up to your preconceptions of the super wealthy or what

they tell u that people got into yale because they r super smart, there were lots of smart ppl for sure, the other half were coached smart by expensive tutors + test prep companies

I think the use (and misuse) of 'privilege' as rhetorical device stems pretty directly from a Protestant view that whatever fate awaits you is related to your efforts to please God and God's day to day workings in the world. There's a smug (often hypocritical) self-pleased vibe out of families that have done well that they have morally deserved it so they then turn around and try and moralize or treat themselves as norms to be followed. ("If you, too, had the sense to be born a white, aristocratic, Protestant male, maybe life wouldn't be as tedious as you always describe it to me. Keep your chin up, though. Toodles.")

xp

ha, i didn't realise my family were working class until i'd been at university for a year

some of them def did feel like total aliens, there was this one guy who would just give ipod sto all his friends, like hed be hanging out with a friend and be like 'do u want this ipod' and then a few days later hed have a new one

they tell u that people got into yale because they r super smart, there were lots of smart ppl for sure, the other half were coached smart by expensive tutors + test prep companies

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:00 PM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup, also when you grow up in that environment its just in the air

this was back when ipods were cool + expensive

how rampant was cheating in addition to tutor test/prep that you could tell?

ipods arent cool anymore how come no one told me

nb: i never hung out with this guy cuz he was a douche so i never got a free ipod =(

its a privilege to know that ipods arent cool anymore xp

giving stuff away is def in violation of all wasp codes, not sure what was up w that kid, was he a foreigner or something

check your iPrivilege

this makes sense except, where does it stop? i mean given that a scale of who is less privileged would be almost endless.

There is pretty much no point at which being asked or told to note your advantages is a bad idea? Even if at the end you still think the same thing(s) as before, it can never hurt. In this sense, the use of privilege in discourse doesn't have to have an end point, you're not arriving at something final, no one is going to "win" or "lose" if you let go of this need for certainty/a verdict.

?? Bribery is an ancient part of the WASP code!!

yeah and i will add that at least in my v limited understanding of foucault, power is relational and therefore highly context depenndent... i gotta go now but have fun ya'lll

i mean given that a scale of who is less privileged would be almost endless.

Right down the line and then, with the happy dead, it flips.

?? Bribery is an ancient part of the WASP code!!

― But I'm having so much foehn! (Michael White), Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:06 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i mean the ipod thing just doesnt feel right

an ipod is a small price to pay for admission to an ivy.

xxxp I mean I understand why it seems like a race to be the bottommost person in the pile but a) I don't think that actually happens in a well-meaning discussion where ppl want to come closer together or closer to a goal together, and b) I think that conception shows that the person characterizing it doesn't understand what intersectionality is, for one thing, or what the whole awareness-increasing work is for.

pfft they should be giving me an ipod xp

yeah i mean the ipod thing just doesnt feel right

I have known very insecure and very rich people for whom an iPod would be the equivalent of buying someone a sandwich and who would parcel out presents to pals in ways that (would) shock us. It's pretty sad for all involved.

srsly dear rich friends just take us on vacations that what we want

what is intersectionality

i have this sweet ass chrome plugin called google dictionary check it out i use it all the time

http://i.imgur.com/WGcfS5h.png

Intersectionality? I wasn't even close t'her sectionality!

Sentences just will not stop

thanks lag∞n I just thought maybe people would have insights on this thread that would be more nuanced than a dictionary definition

ha yeah i tbf that blurb didnt really help me understand what intersectionality is, but still sweet plugin

You can look it up, it'll be a more complete explan because I don't know the crit theory specifics but I understand it to be about the network of all different kinds of discrimination against the combinations of things that ppl are: non-white, non-male, non-rich, non-American, non-educated, etc. This is why it's not a hierarchy in which a person loses by being more "priviliged" than someone else. I envision intersectionality as a Tron-like grid world where everyone is at a node on intersecting lines of being a little better off here and a little worse there.

So if someone is like, I think by virtue of where your node is, you're not the person who has the most at stake here or who is the most insightful about what we're talking about, they're not accusing you of a personal failing, just chill out for a sec.

"privilege" = another piece in that Game nitsuh wrote about in that vampire wknd blog thing, basically the only people who ever use this word in earnest discussion are college ppl trying to one up each other by showing how grateful and worldly and learnéd they are in comparison to their entitled, unworthy peers.

Isn't the idea that, being privileged, I'm listened to in ways that less privileged people are not? So, whatever the validity of what I say, I am obligated to abstain from speech if speaking right now would contribute to other voices being ignored?

― lazulum, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:34 PM (21 minutes ago)

from, um, certain past ile discussions, i'd gathered that part of the problem (wr2 privilege and rationalism) is that fence-sitting, devil-advocating rationalism is seen as a favored stance of the privileged. this is especially true when such rationalism questions ideas and voices that actively seek to disempower privilege.

like: "if you were less privileged, you would understand more clearly the need for passionate partisanship." and/or: "...you'd see why your blithe interest in 'just exploring the idea' might be kind of offensive in itself." all of which makes sense to me.

thanks in orbit! I've seen the word used before and I figured it somehow related to the different dimensions of privilege but that gives me a much clearer picture.

Oh god I forgot non-straight and non-cis which are pretty much two of the huge ones. O well, you all get the idea.

Tbf fair, those who possess privilege and property have the most to lose from every harebrained bit of partisan passion. It's a little daft to show up at the chateau and ask the castellan to have the decency to shoot himself so you don't have to.

well sure, the privileged do have a lot to loose, are sometimes serried before pocked walls, etc. nevertheless, the basic condition of privilege exists in the casual acceptance of social power. therefore, the privileged may be given to a degree of intellectual disengagement when discussing the world's problems. whatever the situation, they've still got table service.

it's funny when i was in the academy... i mean college... i never took any of these social justice / race type classes, i just read books by dead white men, wasn't really alive / aware of these things. now looking abck, and in talking to friends about people we knew at college, i have realized that literally everybody i know from college came from horrendous wealth

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:55 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

having gone to public middle/high school with a lot of pretty poor kids, and then a state university (and not one of the UVA/Michigan variety), I actually got the impression that my family was pretty rich. Which on world and even America terms is true I guess, but I just didn't have any sense of the kind of wealth that one would see at private colleges. I figured "I don't absolutely have to work while in school" plus "my parents bought me a six-year-old used toyota corolla" = rich. That was probably ultimately a good and healthy way to see things.

Also u were rich

fuck the rich

class anxiety about zunes

those were the best -- i want a zune tablet