privilege as a meme

yeah it's useful as a tool of awareness for sure. I haven't personally been involved in any conversations where I've seen it used to shut down a speaker.

On a related note, does anyone on ilx say, "check your privilege?" I think I would need an explanation of what that means.

not enough room on this plane for yr privilege

i sort of feel like logic is the weapon we should use against prejudices, because they are all entirely illogical, but that is probably a particularly privileged way of looking at things since it betrays that it's the lack of logic that annoys me as much as the hatred, since i'm not a direct victim of the latter.

rationalists def need to check their privilege

i dont feel like ive ever had accusations of privilege used as a weapon against me but i have def, on the internet of course, seen people try to use it to carry more weight than its constructed for, theres tendency just to cut and paste privilege into any old argument, which is when i think we reach memehood

i dont really believe in 'logic' unless youre talking about like first order or symbolic logic or something

i feel like people should be challenged to check the validity and fairness and logic of what they're arguing or what they believe, not their right to say anything at all given their background. i mean surely if someone is speaking in a way that's blinded by privilege then their views can be taken to task?

Isn't the idea that, being privileged, I'm listened to in ways that less privileged people are not? So, whatever the validity of what I say, I am obligated to abstain from speech if speaking right now would contribute to other voices being ignored?

It does seem to me that privilege is also frequently invoked as short-hand for a certain kind of invalidity, or just as an explanation for why a person has said something wrong. But the "right to speak" angle has some power, I think.

yeah i don't think logic is always the way to go, when you try to reason with forms of oppression that have well-rehearsed arguments you end up often as not engaging with people who are never gonna argue in good faith

it's like i've said before, people who complain about bad manners are as often as not using class/language to silence criticism

it's a great privilege indeed to speak against inequality and have your argument received on its merits, rather than its tone or its suspected motives

maybe i'm just getting on my hobby horse too much but i also like 'privilege' because it's meme-ifying right around the same time that everybody is realizing that the american dream is dead, there is no such thing as social mobility anymore

that is interesting

looking forward to that realisation sinking in over here

like... for so long the standard response to p much any questions of inequality / oppression has been, well, if u put ur head down and work hard like my father did, u can overcome it! in this land of opportunity, america

but like maybe the only real wealth engine out there that isn't lawyering/banking/medicine is like... tech startups, which tend to be dominated by people who had access to expensive computers + ungodly amounts of uninterrupted leisure time since they were small, aka privileged dudes

like on the other end of the ideological spectrum i think are randians and they should all be summarily shot and their bodies dumped into the atlantic

Isn't the idea that, being privileged, I'm listened to in ways that less privileged people are not? So, whatever the validity of what I say, I am obligated to abstain from speech if speaking right now would contribute to other voices being ignored?

this makes sense except, where does it stop? i mean given that a scale of who is less privileged would be almost endless... i don't mean to refute your point, just interested.

does privilege cut into notions of american individualism? does it actually remind people that yes, you only got where u are becaues u stood on the shoulders of giants?

i was thinking about starting a thread called 'creating a language to talk about class in america' and i think that privilege in some ways acts as a proxy for talking about class in america

they are def intimately connected concepts

the narrative i've been hearing has never been put your head down and work hard, but rather hustle and angle your way in BAMN, and by and large i think it's accurate, if not particularly palatable advice. there are barriers in front of you if you play fair, so cheat.

does privilege cut into notions of american individualism? does it actually remind people that yes, you only got where u are becaues u stood on the shoulders of giants?

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:46 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

actually, it's funny how discussing privilege is kind of more necessary in America as an antidote to this kind of thinking. In a rigid class structure, it's hard to imagine telling the upper class "check your privilege." They'd be like "yeah no shit I'm privileged, I'm upper class." That doesn't mean you wouldn't need a language to discuss why that's unfair, but it's in America where people convince themselves they worked for everything they have.

yeah exactly

it's funny when i was in the academy... i mean college... i never took any of these social justice / race type classes, i just read books by dead white men, wasn't really alive / aware of these things. now looking abck, and in talking to friends about people we knew at college, i have realized that literally everybody i know from college came from horrendous wealth

hah

did you not recognize it because they didnt live up to your preconceptions of the super wealthy or what

they tell u that people got into yale because they r super smart, there were lots of smart ppl for sure, the other half were coached smart by expensive tutors + test prep companies

I think the use (and misuse) of 'privilege' as rhetorical device stems pretty directly from a Protestant view that whatever fate awaits you is related to your efforts to please God and God's day to day workings in the world. There's a smug (often hypocritical) self-pleased vibe out of families that have done well that they have morally deserved it so they then turn around and try and moralize or treat themselves as norms to be followed. ("If you, too, had the sense to be born a white, aristocratic, Protestant male, maybe life wouldn't be as tedious as you always describe it to me. Keep your chin up, though. Toodles.")

xp

ha, i didn't realise my family were working class until i'd been at university for a year

some of them def did feel like total aliens, there was this one guy who would just give ipod sto all his friends, like hed be hanging out with a friend and be like 'do u want this ipod' and then a few days later hed have a new one

they tell u that people got into yale because they r super smart, there were lots of smart ppl for sure, the other half were coached smart by expensive tutors + test prep companies

― 乒乓, Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:00 PM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup, also when you grow up in that environment its just in the air

this was back when ipods were cool + expensive

how rampant was cheating in addition to tutor test/prep that you could tell?

ipods arent cool anymore how come no one told me

nb: i never hung out with this guy cuz he was a douche so i never got a free ipod =(

its a privilege to know that ipods arent cool anymore xp

giving stuff away is def in violation of all wasp codes, not sure what was up w that kid, was he a foreigner or something

check your iPrivilege

this makes sense except, where does it stop? i mean given that a scale of who is less privileged would be almost endless.

There is pretty much no point at which being asked or told to note your advantages is a bad idea? Even if at the end you still think the same thing(s) as before, it can never hurt. In this sense, the use of privilege in discourse doesn't have to have an end point, you're not arriving at something final, no one is going to "win" or "lose" if you let go of this need for certainty/a verdict.

?? Bribery is an ancient part of the WASP code!!

yeah and i will add that at least in my v limited understanding of foucault, power is relational and therefore highly context depenndent... i gotta go now but have fun ya'lll

i mean given that a scale of who is less privileged would be almost endless.

Right down the line and then, with the happy dead, it flips.

?? Bribery is an ancient part of the WASP code!!

― But I'm having so much foehn! (Michael White), Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:06 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i mean the ipod thing just doesnt feel right

an ipod is a small price to pay for admission to an ivy.

xxxp I mean I understand why it seems like a race to be the bottommost person in the pile but a) I don't think that actually happens in a well-meaning discussion where ppl want to come closer together or closer to a goal together, and b) I think that conception shows that the person characterizing it doesn't understand what intersectionality is, for one thing, or what the whole awareness-increasing work is for.

pfft they should be giving me an ipod xp

yeah i mean the ipod thing just doesnt feel right

I have known very insecure and very rich people for whom an iPod would be the equivalent of buying someone a sandwich and who would parcel out presents to pals in ways that (would) shock us. It's pretty sad for all involved.

srsly dear rich friends just take us on vacations that what we want

what is intersectionality