Depression and what it's really like

I'm not sure I could talk to anyone about it. I mean, everyone hears it every day, and the work culture is pretty weird. My supervisor sexually harassed me when I first started working there ... I was feeling really broken down and vulnerable and I feel like she took advantage of that; she's got a lot of her own issues, obviously. This is a Fortune 300 corporation I work for but it's probably one of the least professional environments I've been in, and not in any sort-of fun way. I'm also bristly and agitated from dealing with recovery, past issues, ptsd, all that jazz, so I can't imagine I've endeared myself to the team all that well.

Even if I were completely well I wouldn't fit in at all there, so I don't have much say in anything. Honestly, I'm just going to be decent, work, go home, and find a new job.

and really, it's up to him to do something about it.

Don't underestimate the impact of small kindnesses.

Depression isn't an addiction, but some AA type concepts can still apply. (i don't even like 12 steps and all that). One of the things they talk about is in the beginning work your own program. I've been around people who were all ready to do the last step, "Go save other people or something." before they were even used to being sober.

The analogy is that having empathy and showing support is necessary and human, but your aren't qualified to do more than that yet, and you aren't obligated either. Group environments have been were I've helped and been helped the most, but those were guided and safe. Get out of the woods yourself first. Especially at work.

tldr

Step 1 - Oh Shit
Step 2 - Get healthy
Step 3 through 11 - ?
Step 12 - Go save other people or something

yeah, that's feeling i've been getting. i need to start focusing on CBT type stuff now, I think I've done all I can with reclaiming emotions and memories, and the CBT aspect is where the real change seems to lie. one of the hardest things for me right now is understanding what my value is. my complete obliviousness to it is having pretty serious negative consequences, not just on my enjoyment of life, but in my relationships and professional life, too.

Therapy is going reasonably well (after a month of strenuous work I'm...slightly better at making eye contact. Um, yay) and more importantly I'm quitting my job to go back to school. I have no idea how I'm going to afford it past the first year, I have no illusions about actually getting anything even remotely resembling a traditional college experience, but fuck it, one more year at that place and I would have ended up killing myself anyway. Even if I end up in Debtor's Gaol with half a worthless arts degree I'll still be happier than I am now.

excellent news, telephone thing. it's small steps like that which are the most important... even if they seem trivial, that shit adds up. but there's always a roadblock from there ... but within that lies yet the next step!

good news on the depresso front here. apparently i'm going to get a great performance review at work, and i'm feeling feelings i've never felt before. good shit. next step is emotionally severing myself from my family. i always had a hint of having to do that, and my therapist suggested it independently one day. i found a book which tackles this issue (Leaving Home if anyone's interested), and this is going to be uhhh... difficult, to put it lightly. family is sacred! how could you not love your mother and father you ungrateful bastard, etc. but if it's what I have to do, then I have to go there.

fwiw Spectrum, in your wdyll, you looked like a very much alive and happy person. Keep working.

How's everybody else doin'?

Thanks Silby, I'm getting there ... still have a while to go, though.

Here's the book I was talking about: www.amzn.com/0231134770. It's the first book I've come across that specifically deals with being neglected/abandoned in your childhood and my lord is it OTM with everything. I'm only halfway through but it really hits home with everything ... it's like a shot of steroids in this process. So if you've had to deal w/ that shit it's a pretty good read. I'm posting it here because I've never come across it mentioned anywhere; I only found it after my therapist suggested I emotionally separate from my family and found it through searching that term.

what do you guys think about positive affirmations? ever try them, helpful at all?

i haven't really done that as an enforced ongoing habit, Stuart Smalley-style, but i don't think it's bad to force yourself to think "good" thoughts every so often, at the very least to counter the "bad" ones automatically conjured by depression - it helps me a little bit, sometimes

i see the value in that, understanding the positive reality that's out there. my therapist is encouraging me not to focus on the past and instead focus on positive affirmations, which i'm not really down with. i feel like i need to understand what the hell is going on first before i can find the positive angle. just doing affirmations w/o any context doesn't seem helpful to me. i'm going to try the positive thinking stuff my own way, i do see how it can be helpful. i'm getting a The Secret vibe from the way she's presenting it, though.

I've been able to talk myself out of anxiety, which seems like a similar principle. I never ever talk to myself (find it weird that people do, honestly) but decided to try it in the car one day when my anxiety was particularly bad. It was kind of like putting voice to the logical part of my brain, the part telling me that the anxiety was a false trigger and that I didn't need to feel anxious, and it made it easier to believe. Don't know if that's exactly the same thing, but it was helpful. It's good to try a lot of techniques and see what works for you.

this seems really minor and dumb, but you know what's been really helpful to build a sense of accomplishment for myself?

moving shit from my various to-do lists to a "completed" list. at the end of the day i wind up with a pretty substantial group of time-intensive shit that i don't have to worry about anymore. it makes me feel like i'm really moving on things.

it's a kind of positive self talk, is what i mean.

positive self-talk and all its variants otm

i think i'll suspend disbelief and give it a shot. i just have it stereotyped as me saying "i am super duper" over and over in my head.

and the lady my therapist wants me to check out is the same one who said AIDS patients could cure themselves with positive thinking. ?!?@?#$%)

oh yeah you were talking about this upthread a while ago

"I am loveable because I exist." I think I need a little more than that. Maybe this stuff works for other people, but not sure it suits my personality. My therapists' office is in some yoga place where they have crystal healing seminars, so perhaps this is all starting to fit together.

I really need to stop making personal decisions based on whether I'd think it'd be funny on a TV show

There's a lot of that going around. Try to resist.

I've never been able to suspend disbelief enough for self-love mantras either, but I'll say again what I have said many times; I find loving-kindness meditation immeasurably helpful. You are wishing other people well, which helps you to forgive the world (a tiny bit at a time) and you wish yourself well, which requires no suspension of judgement.

Practising loving other people when they don't deserve it (from a safe distance) is a good step w/r/t loving yourself, feeling that you don't deserve it.

I really need to stop making personal decisions based on whether I'd think it'd be funny on a TV show

― Spectrum, Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:42 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Louie has ruined us all

xp loving-kindness meditation I can get down with, there's something substantial to it. I remember coming across something like that when I was reading up on Buddhism. maybe I'll try it out.

that louis h4y self-affirmation stuff is like something i'd try as a kid when you see one general thing like this, and another general thing like that, and you'd think you could just mash it up together to get a logical result, despite the actual details being way more complex, and the outcome being completely unrealistic despite being superficially logical. magical thinking, that's what I'm trying to say.

not to focus on the past and instead focus on positive affirmations, which i'm not really down with

She has a point, but you'll have to figure out how to implement it so it makes some kind of sense to you. You have noted already that people sometimes seek out your friendship and act like you are a worthwhile person and this has in the past puzzled you because your self-image didn't allow for this proof of your worth to have any basis in reality.

Maybe, instead of chanting "I am really a worthwhile person" to yourself in the mirror, which I admit would seem pretty dumb to me too, you could force yourself to notice all the concrete instances of your own actions and those of others toward you that contradict that idea that you're a little worthless shit, and then force yourself to notice those instances are real, present and undeniable, while the sneering voice in your head is just a voice in your head. Then you can say, "I am really a worthwhile person" with a more conviction and it will seem less like magical thinking.

But to make it work, you'll have to allow yourself to notice all that good stuff you used to dismiss immediately and relentlessly ignore.

You're right, Aimless. I know there's some value in that positive affirmation stuff, but it comes from developing the actual, real life positive conclusion first. I don't think I'm going to get that doing this endless quest through the past I've been on. My therapist was right to try and guide me away from that ... I mean, I think the lady she's repping for is corny to say the least, but what she was trying to get across was right. That's why I'm glad I'm in therapy, there's someone there to pull me out of the abyss.

I think at this point I'm obsessively dwelling on the past because it presents this giant puzzle I can solve, like I can play psychological detective in some film noir I've made out of my life. I guess I don't have time for that shit anymore... I really should just find hobbies or work that'll keep me satisfied in that regard.

the thing about that puzzle is that it has no solution; who you are right now is the unfathomable result of a million coincidences and events. Hobbies, work, are good things.

yeah. I think it's too much to try and figure out every little thing from the past 30 years of my life. i mean, i've gained some valuable insight reflecting on the past, but it's often for the sake of itself without any present or future thinking. like, I still haven't thought about the positive stuff about myself or my life yet, but I've explored all sorts of developmental theories ad nauseam. truth be told I'm making serious progress here, so it hasn't been for naught. maybe i'm ready to change my direction towards the present day.

i think the important thing about positive affirmations is to make sure, as aimless says, to use instances that are concrete instances of your own actions and those of others toward you that ... are real, present and undeniable

one of the things i get out of working with my therapist(s) is help identifying these things which i can then use, very effectively, as positive self-talk.

if it's not real or realistic (cf stuart smalley) then it's not useful

yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. but I'm starting think now that I need to "break up" with my therapist. I'm going to talk to her about my issues/concerns, and depending on how she responds I'll take it from there. I feel like I'm in a bad relationship again where every time I go home I think "I need to break up with this person ..." yet rationalize my way out of it.

It's possible she's taken you as far as she is able, but if you do break up with her, please consider finding another therapist and continuing to seek assistance with your struggle. Your own unaided thinking may not be clear enough yet to be entirely relied upon.

yeah tbh the professional thing for her to do would be to recommend a colleague she thinks would better meet your current needs, and she'll probably be happy to do so.

i'm definitely going to continue therapy. that's why I might have to do this, because I want to make the most of my life. I think the issue is twofold: she doesn't seem comfortable connecting emotionally, so she pushes me away from doing the hard emotional work I'm doing (which is just a natural consequence of me taking treatment seriously), and she's an acolyte of Louise H4y who believes the past isn't a factor in a person's psychological makeup and all problems can be cured by repeating positive mantras. She's down with Feeling Good, which is cool, but I don't think she's the person I can explore my past with.

Last week I had an really serious breakthrough where I saw in crystal clarity for the first time in my adult life how much my mind and emotions recreate the past and how I've been a prisoner of it. This is like a huge fucking leap for me in breaking out of all this crap I've been dealing with. and in our session I felt like she took a giant dump on it and wanted me to focus on something I had utterly zero interest in focusing on. and this ain't the first time.

Holy shit! The Louise H4y CD she gave me features a very bizarre claim that bad thoughts cause cancer and ... leprosy!?#@(?. WTF IS THIS?!?!? I WAS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, I NEED TO GO!!! :{ : { : {

what right thinking person can believe this crap? this is yet another case where following intuition was the right way to go.

this Louise H4y crap seems fucking dangerous, I can't believe she's been pushing on me to get with this. this is yet another "aha!" moment where I realize I'm in a fucked up situation by ignoring my inner warning flares... which started like, second session. she has helped me, though, and I ignored most of the weird crap she's been trying to suggest to me, so it ain't all bad. anyyyyyway.... back to regular programming.

It's incredibly frustrating to have this one area of your life that just consistently rears its ugly head and really undermines all of the good things you have going on. Like I know parts of my brain should be "just STFU and be thankful for the good things", but that tactic hasn't been working as of late.

ok, ok, one last bitching from me before I get back to work on myself, i'm feeling way in the dumps now and just need to get it out. i'm getting so damn sick of being a weirdo and never really fitting in anywhere. my whole life i just wanted to jam a railroad spike into my head so i could be like everyone else. i'm so sick of having to hide who I really am and not having any kind-of environment where I can really be me and express myself. like, i need to work my butt off and take the initiative to find my place, but i've experienced so damn little of it I don't even know where to begin.

at my job, and most jobs i ever worked at, no matter how much progress i make in therapy i'm never going to really fit in and there's a low ceiling to how much i'm going to be able to get along with people. or environments like this. or places like where i grew up. which is pretty much the mainstream majority kinda thing. i guess i need to accept that. huh. well that blows. i wish there were more people like me out there :{

woah! think i'm starting to make sense of this. sorry for typing out all this crap here, feels like i'm inside a black hole atm.

i'm getting so damn sick of being a weirdo and never really fitting in anywhere.
soon you'll turn the corner and join the rest of us who feel that way and are ok with it :)

you're gonna be ok. have you thought about art therapy of some kind? this made me think you might enjoy it i'm so sick of having to hide who I really am and not having any kind-of environment where I can really be me and express myself.

what is art therapy, exactly? honestly i feel most at home when i'm at some bizarre music show or experimental "happening"... i always leave stuff like that feeling rejuvinated. i used to take friends and girlfriends to stuff like that and they'd always say, "that was really weird, man, i don't know..."

I meant like making art therapeutically -- using art as a medium to discuss things, I guess? Pouring your heart into noises or shapes and colors or cutting up magazines or whatever floats your boat!

hmmm ... that could be fun. creating stuff is this totally essential part of myself that i feel like i'm missing right now. i used to write, draw, and make music like crazy from about age 7 til graduating college, then i died inside when i went into ADULT WORLD 5000. thanks for the suggestion.

i'm getting so damn sick of being a weirdo and never really fitting in anywhere.

xp - I know the feeling! Suerte to you.

hey spectrum, sorry to hear you're feeling so low. fwiw, i can relate in a lot of ways. i'm feeling more worthless & alienated than i have in ages, genuine black hole shit, but i've been on the other side of it, and i know that feeling like a "weirdo" (or w/e) can be pretty damn great, too. liberating, empowering, kind of thrilling when you make it work for you, not against. i mean, everyone i've ever loved has been a stone cold freak. god bless 'em all.

thanks contendo, it's good to know i'm not alone. good luck getting out of the black hole, it's not a fun place to be.

funny, what makes me weird in the 'burbs were actually huge assets for me in NYC, i just wasn't ready to be uhhh ... accepted yet, i guess. i should think about moving back there, i just wish it wasn't so damn expensive.

grass is always greener man, don't discount yourself too much

i talked about this feeling different stuff with my therapist and I don't think she believed me. she thought i was looking for ways to reject people or something. which would be all fine and well except for the fact that I've spent my whole life trying to "belong" with your average red-blooded American, and it failed miserably every time. i always made 100% of the effort and it was never reciprocated, on top of me losing my identity in the process.

like, good idea to keep myself open to people and relate to them to the best of my ability, cuz we're all human beings and all, but that's what i'm bringing to the table here. ugh. i'm starting to feel really confused and weird after every session now.