But yeah like forks said I don't go to ilg because I'm way too glib & chatty on ilx & I think the only way to be a game journo anymore is to have complete & total paranoia about the internet, but yeah this the treatment of a friend in regards to this stuff was just so gross I had to vent
Bioshock is pretty great tho
― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 1 April 2013 13:18 (ten years ago) link
is that a new game or something?
― Mordy, Monday, 1 April 2013 14:00 (ten years ago) link
What's Gamescom like?
― Hockey Drunk (kingfish), Monday, 1 April 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI
This video showed up in my related videos section. it sucks shit.
― polyphonic, Monday, 1 April 2013 18:05 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI
Sarkeesian is such an easy target for internet trolls. I honestly wish she were a little more challenging and interesting but she's still among the better video game essayists if only due to the low bar.
― I offer about as much diversity as a saltine cracker. (forksclovetofu), Monday, 1 April 2013 18:59 (ten years ago) link
i am somewhat amazed someone made a ten minute video refuting zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
― Nhex, Monday, 1 April 2013 23:49 (ten years ago) link
is casual racism a big issue in games? seems like sexism is a much more pervasive problem. not every game is Mike Tyson's Punch-Out.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 15:55 (ten years ago) link
yes
― Nhex, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
http://kotaku.com/5836692/that-weirdly-racist-npc-in-deus-ex-human-revolution
― ☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
I've never gotten the clammy chill of racism from punch out, at least not to the extent I get from seeing actual boxing.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
Because I've not played the game, I don't know (and the article doesn't say) whether there are other black characters in the game, which would seem to make a difference - if she's one of many, and the many don't sound like that, then saying "Surely there won't be anyone that sounds like this in 14 years!" is not in itself a good look.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:14 (ten years ago) link
Well the title of this thread is that it's more accepted in videogames than in other media. I'm not really seeing that. Feel like for every Deus Ex that gets called out people call out a Transformers.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
Transformers is practically one long videogame cutscene
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:24 (ten years ago) link
a good portion of it is the multiplayer/internet culture, but yeah it definitely feels like racism is more normalized in gaming
― Nhex, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
there's been good writing at kotaku on this issue
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:38 (ten years ago) link
http://kotaku.com/5897227/come-on-video-games-lets-see-some-black-people-im-not-embarrassed-by
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:39 (ten years ago) link
http://kotaku.com/5985340/this-is-how-we-get-more-black-people-in-video-games
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:40 (ten years ago) link
http://kotaku.com/5987766/this-is-why-we-need-more-black-people-making-video-games
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:02 (ten years ago) link
i disagree with the idea that video games need to follow the models of other media to fix racism/sexism since the other media is largely the source.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
uh
― the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
not parsing u philip
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
the caricatures come from movies/tv/comic books -- which aren't doing a better job than video games at least on the commercial end.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:21 (ten years ago) link
lol that's a steaming pile
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:24 (ten years ago) link
well, let me walk that back, i still dont understand what exactly youre saying
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:25 (ten years ago) link
...
1) The caricatures come from more than just movies/TV/comic books; they come from music, they come from the stage, they come from historical scientific studies, they come from conventional wisdom, they come from old wives' tales, they come from EVERYWHERE
2) Tyler Perry has built a gigantic media empire off of a series of movies that encompasses a broad spectrum of the African-American experience. There was an entire renaissance of black filmmakers spearheaded by Melvin Van Peebles and continuing on through Spike Lee, the Hudlins, and John Singleton that explored different facets of black experience, to the point where modern movies have a spectrum of black characters to offer consumers, including some caricatures.
2) Ditto with television, where entire networks have dedicated themselves to showing multifaceted black characters (TV One, sometimes BET, OWN, Tyler Perry's terrible TBS show)
3) Comic books have been way out in front of this for a long, long time, stretching back to the introduction of characters like Black Lightning, Black Panther, Luke Cage, Storm and the entire Milestone universe.
Basically you have no idea what you are talking about.
― the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:28 (ten years ago) link
well specifically i'm saying tyler perry making video games would be counterproductive (having a milestone comics of videogames i'm less emphatically against, but there's other reasons why i wouldn't be optimistic about it), but i'm also generally against video games looking outward for a corrective in a place that doesn't look much better by comparison and is also the source of a lot of the problems.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:32 (ten years ago) link
so really what you're saying is "I can't read" because no one is actually advocating that Tyler Perry start making videogames
― the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
philip what it seemed to me that you wre saying is that strategie sthat have been used to pursue diversity/humanizing people of color in other medium (i.e. just introducing enough characters of colors to be able to express a diversity of common, humanistic sentiments) is not valid for video games because the video game industry makes more money nowadays than movies/tv/comics? i really don't understand
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:35 (ten years ago) link
speak for yourself bruh, i'd play a LucasArts-style Why Did I Get Married? xp
― ta-nehisi goatse (fadanuf4erybody), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:37 (ten years ago) link
I'd argue that this is functionally equivalent to arguing that Tyler Perry literally make video games. In the very least, Tyler Perry literally making videogames would have answered this call:"I hope it'll be sooner rather than later, but as long as the industry maintains its focus on blockbusters over everything, it'll be a long time coming. Which means that what video games needs is not just Blazing Saddles, but Tyler Perry."
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:39 (ten years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literal_and_figurative_language
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:40 (ten years ago) link
as I said
― the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:41 (ten years ago) link
If you look at "characters like Black Lightning, Black Panther, Luke Cage, Storm and the entire Milestone universe," they aren't marquee characters today, and it's telling when there's such a pent-up need for a Morales Spider-Man that comics have a long way to go in catching up to its audience.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:41 (ten years ago) link
what's your alternative, philip?
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:42 (ten years ago) link
I'm saying that his figurative use has no functional difference in the same way that a figurative Tyler Perry would be just as damaging as a literal Tyler Perry.
re: alternative -- strip away narratives borrowed from other media/genres and concentrate on games as games, which just by that alone will be less racist/sexist.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:44 (ten years ago) link
lol so your answer is that the video games industry should just stick to remaking tetris
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:45 (ten years ago) link
tetris is probably racist against slavs
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:46 (ten years ago) link
what does concentrating on 'games as games' mean. are you saying video games should be 'colorblind.'
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:47 (ten years ago) link
think he wants to shut down the whole avenue of narrative and hyperreal game design just so there won't be any humanoids to put racisms on
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:48 (ten years ago) link
won't stop people who play in arcade fighter tournaments from shouting "rape" and "nigger" though!
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:49 (ten years ago) link
um
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:50 (ten years ago) link
i'm saying games ought to refrain from drawing in narratives obv. modeled after other media around it. If it does this, it would at least avoid the racist/sexist and all other baggage as a minimum.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
xp sorry dayo I was trying to jocularly make a point about the audience being as much of a source of the problem itt as the creators
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
i mean games ought to do this anyway as a means of growth for the medium as a whole. the whole not bringing in 100 years of problematic culture in is a bonus.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:52 (ten years ago) link
this reminds me, I need to get onto marketing my new competitive fighting game Niggerrape
at least then the catcalls will be game-appropriate
I am going to now go off and do some massive penance for that joke
― the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:52 (ten years ago) link
hehe "massive penance"
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:53 (ten years ago) link
so philip, getting rid of RPGs would be a good first step right?
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:55 (ten years ago) link
narrative is not something that's self-contained in literature/film/comics/tv, narrative is human experience related. you're being willfully naive here philip
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:56 (ten years ago) link
unless your answer to reducing sexism/racism in video games is to make 100 more angry birds
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:57 (ten years ago) link