david foster wallace - is he a cunt?

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(If I remember correctly, he then does it again in French.)

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 22:37 (nineteen years ago) link

nabisco's latest is probably my ILB post-of-the-year nomination.

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I believe I meant antinomies, above.

W i l l (common_person), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 01:01 (nineteen years ago) link

kaz i wasn't trying to 'summarize' any of those guys. dick.

jurgens cashley, Wednesday, 23 March 2005 14:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Seriously, read "Everything Is Green." It's three heartbreaking pages and is as human as can be.

The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 15:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Who doesn't have a sense of humor now?

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

My DFW is limited to Infinite Jest, Girl With Curious Hair and A Supposedly Fun Thing. My take on him is that he's a great if sometimes obnoxious essayist and an interesting but seriously flawed fiction writer. I know he thinks of himself as a fiction writer first, which is too bad, because his fiction won't ever be as interesting or insightful as his nonfiction. I get the feeling it's important to him to be an author, not just an essayist (or, god forbid, a journalist). Infinite Jest has some terrific bits -- a lot of them, enough to at least get me to read the whole damn thing -- but I never really thought it came off. The characters never felt like characters to me, I was aware of the great looming presence of DFW in every line. I also agree that he's a little clattery as a stylist, but when he's on a roll he can build some riotous momentum (people say Pynchon, but in some ways he actually makes me think more of Hunter S. Thompson).

An interesting guy, basically. Smart as hell.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 26 March 2005 09:24 (nineteen years ago) link

On consideration, I think maybe yes.

The more I think about DFW, the less I like him. It seems to me that most of his appeal is superficial, and has maybe too much to do with his audience. i do love his linguistic energy, inventiveness, but the thing that does bug me a lot is his post-grad-MTV-Keanu Reeves(sp?) put on where he interjects a lot of pat, blank, empty teen talk and I can't help but think that he's one of those very irritating post adolescent male cunts who, still in their 30s, seem to be coming to terms with the idea that they were, in their early teens, thought highly precocious, and that, their being aware of this label became for them a kind of badge, which they always draw attention to, ie., cling to, by trying to sound extremely brainy one moment and then offering some kind of anaesthetised teen response which is a kind of ingratiating "apology", for being so smart.

So, in conclusion, false modesty does pretty much qualify you for a cunt. But then again, Martin Amis seems like the biggest cunt around, as far as authors go, and no-one could accuse him of false modesty.

David Joyner (David Joyner), Saturday, 2 April 2005 01:23 (nineteen years ago) link

i really liked that tense present article when i read it in harper's. i thought it was so interesting. i would read more stuff like that. i've never read his fiction. i liked it in the same way that i like nicholson baker's essays on old newspapers and libraries.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 2 April 2005 02:40 (nineteen years ago) link

DFW's radio thing in the current Atlantic is happening. Nice graphic design for the footnotes, too. Maybe non/fic is his "thing"?

m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 2 April 2005 02:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not convinced that the footnote design really is any good, but it's an interesting try. I am tired of everything trying to look like the web.

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 2 April 2005 05:39 (nineteen years ago) link

He’s frustrating for reasons cited in posts above, but his best stuff is so funny, especially the famous essays from “A Supposedly…” and selected scenes from “Infinite Jest.” I made it through “Infinite Jest” and found it inspired w/r/t (sorry) ideas and prose and wit and, of course, lacking w/r/t narrative and character and momentum after page 600 or so. It’s not a soulless book, though. He’s a humanist, and I think that comes through.
As a writer and editor, I’ll add that he’s a bad influence on those of who have less talent than he has. Not that he’s unique in that respect.
A friend of mine interviewed him and said he was warm and just as articulate as his fans might expect. Another friend met him at a party and said he was carrying around a tall clear glass, in which glass (sorry) he was spitting out gobs of snuff juice. Not that that’s a crime.

dylan (dylan), Friday, 8 April 2005 02:21 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...
might tie together the various posts above, esp. nitsuh's and gypsy mothra's, by nothing that there's something clearly essayistic about dfw's style, in fiction, and that he's not an oddity in that respect. something interesting could be said by comparing his own style with those of the appropriate fellow travelers - the reasons for differences among them.

Josh (Josh), Sunday, 8 May 2005 06:12 (eighteen years ago) link

My own two pennies.
IJ was fun but only for the stylistic fireworks, plotwise it's something of a non-starter.
Broom of the System reads like a tryout for the more arsey literary journals.
A Supposedly Fun Thing...etc is worth dipping into because it marries DFW's love of (or at least temporary profound interest in) his subjects with his obvious liguistic giftedness.
Everything and More (or as you guys call it - the Infinity book) was worth the effort it took to read it, even if chunks of it are wrong (or misleading say) because it's nice to see that kind of subject matter get a treatment from writer of DFW's talent and humour.

As you might be able to guess I like the guy's work. If only because one of my friends, after borrowing IJ from me, said it read like it was written by an idealised version of me.

Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Thursday, 12 May 2005 15:02 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
Strange, I read this whole therad and I don't think that anyone has mentioned Brief Interviews with Hideous Men. Although I think it's the most hit/miss than any of his other fiction, the hits ("Octet," last Brief Interview) are some of the best work he's done.

New collection of essays coming out sometime relatively soon, too.

Oh, and not a cunt.

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link

the photo of him on the back of infinite jest has prevented me from reading it more than once. thats as much as i can say about him.

tom cleveland (tom cleveland), Monday, 27 June 2005 02:12 (eighteen years ago) link

it it the one where he's wearing a bandana and looking down at something? for someone who has such a fine grasp of self-consciousness on the page, he sure doesn't seem to 'get it' w/ these back-book photos.

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Monday, 27 June 2005 04:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Suzy OTMFM. He's awfully smart for someone that looks like he has a great introductory membership offer for you if you sign up today.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 27 June 2005 05:15 (eighteen years ago) link

looking down at his tobacco spit cup, presumably

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 June 2005 07:53 (eighteen years ago) link

is that really under his control? might the publisher be more or less in charge of that? dunno.

W i l l (common_person), Monday, 27 June 2005 12:56 (eighteen years ago) link

had he quit smoking by then? ...

There are a couple fan-friendly pictures - the beefy pic with the short hair, where he kind of looks like he's lost (from Broom or Girl, I think) and the one w/ the dogs.

I'm actually kind of interested in the contractual ins/outs of cover art and the dust-jacket photos. Anyone here published and have to go through w/ all of this?

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Monday, 27 June 2005 22:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Paul Auster seems to have a very distinct, cultivated author photo "look."

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 01:44 (eighteen years ago) link

the english editions of these books have no photos |: well, the paperbacks don't, i know this.

there's a fiction anthology edited by zadie smith a couple years ago ('the burned children of america') (oyy) which has an introduction all about finding some manic-with-their-foster-wallace-fannishness-foster-wallace-fans in spain or something and one of them produces something from a pocket and OMG ITS THE BANDANNA

tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 07:57 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm actually kind of interested in the contractual ins/outs of cover art and the dust-jacket photos. Anyone here published and have to go through w/ all of this?

in my case cover was designed in house by the publisher w/ my input and approval and owned by them. author photos were provided (and paid for) by me. this is fairly typical in the US. at the urging of my agent, I was pretty demanding about the cover: rejecting two versions, settling on a third, then getting a fourth that was absolutely perfect. much to my chagrin, six months after publication I was informed the two biggest bookstore chains had basically passed on the book because they didn't like the cover! so I ceded control on the paperback cover and ended up liking that one too.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 09:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Coleman, did you strike a "writerly" pose for your author photo?

Like this ...

http://www.ncf.ca/~ek867/david_foster_wallace.jpg

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 21:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, I was thinking of this one:

http://www.twbookmark.com/images/46/25786.jpg

"I am a part-time yoga instructor, but I'm going to massage school."

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 29 June 2005 01:52 (eighteen years ago) link

no like this (xpost)

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/Pictures/coleman_profile.jpg

m coleman (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 29 June 2005 11:47 (eighteen years ago) link

after seeing it revived a couple times the thread title is starting to make me a bit sad, as is my initial enthusiasm for it

tom west (thomp), Wednesday, 29 June 2005 17:43 (eighteen years ago) link

and i recall why i can't stand that kazmatsury prick.

jeffrey coleman (jdahlem), Wednesday, 29 June 2005 23:51 (eighteen years ago) link

seven months pass...
Broom of the system is mostly bad, with moments.
-- Gravel Puzzleworth (mostlyconnec...), March 22nd, 2005.

I read broom of the system for the first time last week and loved it. I have no idea why I wrote this.

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 3 February 2006 14:38 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm glad you did, because I'd never seen this thread before. And I have to say, I went to a DFW reading a while ago and he was lovely, the kind of person whose phone number you want really badly, so when you see some product ad going in a weird direction you can call him up and ask, "hey, did you see those Mennen commercials? How many kinds of referential are they, anyway, what with the turnstile-hurdling and the blantant appeal to blah blah blah" and he would be like, "I KNOW! I was actually thinking about how there's a little tiny hidden connection to this other thing that no one else has ever put together in this really accessible way and what do you think of that?" And you'd light a cigarette and put some tea on and half an hour later one of you says, "why are we still on the phone? let's just get a beer." and spend all night talking shit. How incredibly FUN does that sound? Because he was a mess, mostly -- boots unlaced and hair possibly kind of greasyish and in his face so that he kept combing it back in this really distracted habitual way like it helps him think -- and he seemed so excitable, and totally willing to follow any line of thought just to see where it went, and utterly disdain-less.

Please let me know when they make a miniature version I can keep on my dresser.

Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 3 February 2006 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link

now i want to go to a dfw reading |:

tom west (thomp), Friday, 3 February 2006 15:46 (eighteen years ago) link

i gotta ask-- was this not how you felt he would be from reading his stuff?

W i l l (common_person), Friday, 3 February 2006 18:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh no, he was exactly like you'd think, which means emphatically NOT a cunt. But, like, 80% of the references in this thread are lost on me so I can only say, from experience, that he seemed triffic in person.

Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 3 February 2006 19:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Ha, that's great, Laurel.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 3 February 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I still hate The Cult of Infinite Jest but am excited to read the new essay collection.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 3 February 2006 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I missed his recent reading in LA (I think I decided to watch a basketball game instead!), but this write-up of the event is somewhat amusing...

Jeff LeVine (Jeff LeVine), Friday, 3 February 2006 19:27 (eighteen years ago) link

Because he was a mess, mostly -- boots unlaced and hair possibly kind of greasyish and in his face so that he kept combing it back in this really distracted habitual way like it helps him think

All of this, when I saw him like 7 years ago, seemed really contrived, an image he was marketing, and something that would help him land the ladies.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 3 February 2006 21:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Huh. I couldn't say, I guess. It's not impossible, although he's married now and his wife was there and was sort of equally tough-yet-adorable. Am sort of interested in why you thought it was contrived...my impression (also contrived?) is that he's actually kind of neurotic, and the rangy, underdressed thing works for me to offset the neuroses and keep him from being Woody Allen.

Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 3 February 2006 21:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, it just all felt so studied -- there's no reason for his hair to be falling in his face except that he seems to like the effect of pushing it away, and yet at the same time there's this sense that it "just happens to be that way", that it isn't something he's thought of at all, but he clearly thinks everything to death. So it came off as "false authenticity".

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 3 February 2006 23:54 (eighteen years ago) link

can you say what behavior from him wouldn't have come off as "false authenticity?" (not trolling, genuinely curious)

W i l l (common_person), Saturday, 4 February 2006 02:58 (eighteen years ago) link

He's a cunt who can't write that well.

East from the city and down to the cave (noodle vague), Saturday, 4 February 2006 03:01 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=266836

W i l l (common_person), Saturday, 4 February 2006 03:03 (eighteen years ago) link

No, I can't.

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 4 February 2006 03:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Actually I have it on good authority that, like, 7 years ago when he was regularly in NY, he quite clearly pandered to girls meeting certain structural specifications, and used to use eye contact and etc to hook 'em at the readings. So I think that's probably a fair cop...but I wouldn't have guessed at the sordid past if no one had told me. And I still want to put him in snowglobe.

Laurel, Sunday, 5 February 2006 22:27 (eighteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
DFW is the guest on this week's Bookworm, talking about his new collection of essays. You can listen to the interview online here. It's also available as a podcast.

Jeff LeVine (Jeff LeVine), Friday, 3 March 2006 18:26 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
i went to reread his note on kafka earlier and noticed he mentions (without attribution) orwell's squib - "at forty every man has the face he deserves"; then the harper's essay of some note that follows is subtitled, "or, 'politics and the english language' is redundant". so two orwells in three pages.

so, uh: is there a meaningful and/or exploitable connection between the two, or am i reading too much into this?

(this is possibly destined to be one of those thread revivals that sits there until the next revival - like the last one. but i can't elaborate, i gotta go cook.)

tom west (thomp), Wednesday, 26 April 2006 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

essayist-novelist-journalists (well not so much the latter) gotta stick together?

Josh (Josh), Thursday, 27 April 2006 03:08 (seventeen years ago) link

oh! viz. upthread, I have actually had the thought that nabisco's writing on ILX reads a bit like David Foster Wallace's essaywriting. which is what DFW does best, I think. he's clearly scary smart. I don't think he seems like an asshole at all, as opposed to nearly all the writers he gets grouped with.

I don't love his fiction and have never been able to finish Infinite Jest, but I do adore the first story in Girl With Curious Hair, I think it's called "Little Expressionless Animals." I don't think any other fiction of his I've read touches it, though. this may be just a tin ear that I have toward his type of thing; he definitely has something, whereas Eggers just has a gimmick.

I'm not sure I entirely understand the Orwell question?

horsehoe (horseshoe), Thursday, 27 April 2006 04:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I don’t think Hungerford is suggesting, here, that literature courses should never confront misogyny — or other iterations of hatred — but that seeing as teachers hold the readerly consent of their students in hand, they should choose their texts and authors carefully. To me, Hungerford’s affective-interpretive “worth” system reads as fair: if a reader must pay the cost of imbibing hatred, the author must offer the payback of equivalently potent critical “insight.” Any less is hatred for hatred’s sake. And hatred is worthless

This is such a transactional take on reader response theory. I don't think much good can come from analyzing literary texts as a balance sheet with "value" in one ledger and "cost" in the other. Isn't art supposed to be a repository for kinds of knowledge -- emotional, experiential -- that can't easily be translated into concepts (much less quantified)?

Treeship, Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:25 (seven years ago) link

What do u think of that article j.?

Treeship, Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:26 (seven years ago) link

making literature now...with McSweeney’s and Everything Is Illuminated and DFW? yuck. thanks, trump!

scott seward, Sunday, 18 December 2016 03:35 (seven years ago) link

she must have been sitting on that book for a good ten years waiting for the right time to strike.

scott seward, Sunday, 18 December 2016 03:36 (seven years ago) link

three months pass...

i re-read his tracy austin piece -- i think hes otm abt her just lacking introspection/depth; ive come to really like her as a commentator, shes astute but every bit of analysis is p surface level idk not knocking her

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 5 April 2017 23:59 (seven years ago) link

j. never explained what he thought about the tendentious la review of books piece he linked to.

Treeship, Thursday, 6 April 2017 01:51 (seven years ago) link

four years pass...

Recently read Adrienne Miller's In the Land of Men and I am voting cunt

mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Friday, 29 October 2021 19:23 (two years ago) link

You push a woman out of a moving car, you’re an undeniable cunt

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Monday, 1 November 2021 10:21 (two years ago) link

was she wheel shaped though?

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 1 November 2021 14:04 (two years ago) link


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