Seinfeld: Classic or Dud

Anyway, I want to hate this show, it's the type of cultural phenomenon that normally annoys me, but every time I stumble across a rerun I end up watching it and having some good laffs. Last night I saw the one where Elaine dates a mover but breaks up with him because of his stance on abortion. And George invites himself over to a family's house to watch their rented copy of Breakfast at Tiffany's because he didn't read the book for his study group. It was funny. I'll say classic.

BBC2 didin't treat these shows like the comedy gold they were (sticking them late evening etc WTF?!) whereas crap like friends and will and grace get prime time on C4 (OK the former was funny for the first two series).

crosspost: daddino doesn't rock anymore.

I HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN TO ROCK YET!

I'm afraid of you.

George Constanza is a brilliant character. A recognizable, even sympathetic monster.

Witness this and this. As well as this, once in a while.

Also, I'm fairly sure I would love Larry Sanders, but I've never seen it because of the stupid fucking BBC.

But I do think it's a great show, and sometimes ridiculously funny. And I think the "nihilism" (but it's not that - it's a sympathetic portrait of failed humanity) is what makes it great. Curb Your Enthusiasm does this too, but too much so - we need some real humor and niceness along with the nasty stuff. Also, the particularly New York voice of the show. Complaining about the hackneyed plot lines is like complaining that Buffy has to kill a vampire every week (well, ok, maybe there's something to that).

It's not my personal favorite tv show - I like sentimental, yuppie-sensibility stuff like Mad About You and Northern Exposure, which I won't make greatness claims for. And It's not the greatest tv show ever - whatever that is, it's probably not a sitcom - but I think a good argument can be made for best sitcom of the last 25 years

I totally disagree with this. I've come to HATE the basic attitude of Seinfeld - I watch it every night, it's the only thing on TV in New Zealand - and Jerry's whole, 'My parents love me, aren't I adorable, you all love me, and I'm just gonna be a fucking bastard because I can' thing is really wearying after a while. Seinfeld doesn't even break a sweat. He's always as cool as a cucumber, looking at everyone else - looking at girls - and the sneer is never too far away. Larry David seems much humbler - he can hardly bear to look anyone else in the face, let alone laugh AT them. This makes 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' seem much, much nicer to me.

Seinfeld has ruined me for all other sitcoms: I can't watch any of them without getting bored. I think it's actually gotten better in syndication: the episodes I thought were lame first time around seem funnier to me now. There's also a tragic, hopeless undercurrent to the humor that's perfectly disguised by its breeziness, tho it's probably fatal to take Seinfeld too seriously.

Also, after watching it 53,000,000 times I think I've started to fancy Elaine a bit.

But I'm not entirely without complaint.

They truly should have found someone else to play Seinfeld. In a stellar
comedic cast he stood out as a rank amateur, often botching the
proceedings. The scripts stroke his ego shamelessly, pairing him with
an endless parade of beautiful women and sparing him the severest
discomfort. And his standup was horrible, an unintentional joke.

But he couldn't stop the show from being brilliant! Starting about
halfway through the second season, the writers were so great at
layering several absurd storylines, culminating in these chaotic
comedic orgies that can only be compared to end-of-episode
climaxes in _Fawlty Towers_. How come more sitcoms don't
have this format, instead of a boring linear string of
sometimes-funny wisecracks? Mindless jokes _Seinfeld_
decidedly IS NOT.

Thing is, the early episodes were pretty crappy - that's partly
why I think people don't like them, they got a bad taste in their
mouth early on and never gave it a second chance.

Also, the episodes are highly self-referential, so you have
to watch it from the opening credits, or half the jokes don't
make any sense whatever.

And woah, are there actually people named Shoshanna?
I know a Shoshanna and I thought that her name was a
bizzare hippie side effect.

Oh yeah, and the sight of a pimp Kramer being
arrested for assaulting a prostitute = one of the best
endings ever.

Re: Jerry's dates, it's been openly discussed in at least a few articles on the show, but there was indeed a conscious decision to have Jerry constantly be with very attractive women. Granted, you see this with nearly every TV show so it's not like it was an unusual decision, but Seinfeld definitely wanted to be a "ladies' man" on his show. If anything, it's more ridiculous with George - the character is designed to be unlikeable (Jerry: "It's getting difficult for me to tell people that I even know you!") and not that attractive (see Elaine trying to sell George on a blind date) but he's constantly dating different women and most of them look like they were cast out of a modeling agency.

"I'm Victoria, hi."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y_6fZGSOQI

Re: Jerry, it's actually pretty sensible that a confident benign sociopath, without much in the way of human emotions, would have no trouble getting lots of dates (with zero lasting relationships).

ok continuing with S4 and there are some bits that have not held up well, for example George getting caught staring at a 15 year old's cleavage and Jerry hooking up with the NYU student who thought him and George were a gay couple

Don't forget Jerry was oogling her first and wanted George to join in. Elaine calls him out on this IIRC, making the specific point that she's only 15. Elaine was pretty awesome in those early seasons - on the DVD commentary, Dreyfus even points out that early on, Elaine was actually very principled and very outspoken about her beliefs, and for whatever reason all that went away by the show's end.

the reason was the ppl she was hanging out with so much imo

I guess that explains the Republican Party's continual descent.

Re: Jerry, it's actually pretty sensible that a confident benign sociopath, without much in the way of human emotions, would have no trouble getting lots of dates (with zero lasting relationships).

this is probably true but the reason it comes off so weird to me in the show is that Jerry is such a bad actor, in fact he almost certainly has to be the worst adult lead actor in sitcom history. it still works because he's funny, obviously most of what he does in the show is just a version of his standup act, but occassionally he has to actually express a real emotion and he's so bad at it you almost can't tell what the show's going for sometimes. like even when really bad things happen to him like his car getting stolen or his NBC deal getting cancelled all he can ever express is mild annoyance. Jason Alexander on the other hand might actually be the best sitcom actor ever, I think he's basically perfect in every single scene he's in.

Re: Jerry's dates, it's been openly discussed in at least a few articles on the show, but there was indeed a conscious decision to have Jerry constantly be with very attractive women. Granted, you see this with nearly every TV show so it's not like it was an unusual decision, but Seinfeld definitely wanted to be a "ladies' man" on his show

imo one saving grace here is that a massive share of jerry's girlfriends on seinfeld were also super talented and went on to have hugely successful careers. the list is insanely stacked. mariska hargitay, catherine keener, lauren graham, daphne from fraser, courtney cox, terri hatcher and marcia cross from desperate housewives, megan mullaly and debra messing, jeniffer coolidge (as the masseuse who won't give jerry a massage), sarah silverman, kristin davis