Taking Sides: Penderecki or Ligeti?

It is actually everywhere and when xyzzzz hears it he'll surely say "oh THAT thing"

Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima is one of the most startlingly beautiful things I have ever heard, but yes, this goes to Ligeti.

But yeah, the Ligeti Violin Concerto, sund4r. It tears my heart out.

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Ligeti over Penderecki, Lutoslawski over both.

Ligeti is like ravel, each one of his pieces is a devilishly cunning contraption, each built for a v specific purpose.

Jon otm.

How amazing is Ligeti's organ music? This piece where the organist puts his arm down on a stop-less swell to overdrive the wind, bend the pitch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3gVRPmx9cI

HOW AMAZING IS THIS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esDkIW6oEBg

I love Lutoslawski but have barely scratched the surface. I regularly listen to and recommend the String Quartet, Chain 2, Symphony #4. I haven't come round to enjoying the cello concerto. What's next?

Do you still feel the same way about Ligeti Vln Concerto, Sund4r? (I have to confess I think it's pretty unsatisfying).

I just listened to it (Christina Astrand/Danish Natl Radio Symphony Orchestra/Thomas Dausgaard) and, yep, I think it's all time, just about a perfect piece. I'd be interested in hearing more about what you think. Out of curiosity, do you prefer Gubaidulina's Offertorium? (I ask because I knew a string player who was lukewarm about the Ligeti but mad about the Gubaidulina, which I like but don't rate as highly. I wonder if it's something about the violin writing, if perhaps the Gubaidulina is more idiomatic or enjoyable to play.)

And though some of his scores are aleatoric ("Artikulation"), most are implemented (all the famous ones) and I... kind of respect that more?

As someone who has written my fair share (probably more) of aleatoric music, I think I agree!

Btw, I was probably not being fair enough to Ligeti's 60s works in the OP. I love his wind quintets, btw, which didn't come up itt. (The traditionalist, Bartok-revering side of me might even prefer the Six Bagatelles to the 10 Pieces!) The Etudes for piano (1985-2001) are really great too.

That was a nice break from 70s rock, btw.

I will check out that specific recording, thanks Sund4r.

Gubaidulina bugs me sometimes-- inconsistency in her harmonic language-- but I appreciate "Offertorium" in that it honours the concerto form while reframing it in a nice way. That is to say, a juicy part, orchestra assisting the soloist rather than accompanying it.

RIP Penderecki.

I had no idea he was still alive, so this news was a surprise. listened to the Passion According to St Luke in his memory this AM. What a beautiful piece of music.

We've been talking about in the rolling 2020 classical thread, if anyone's interested:

Rolling Classical 2020

I'm surprised that so many people are saying that. He was active and in the public eye until the end, collaborating with Jonny Greenwood in 2012, winning a Grammy in 2017.

You and me both. And yet:

Rolling Obituary Thread: 2020

Don't suppose too many people have been keeping tabs on his career tbf.

Apparently not

Didn't he conduct Beth Gibbons in Gorecki's 3rd like, last year? TBF I didn't know if he was alive or not until that CD got announced in Feb/March of '19.

Yep, listening to it now.