Depression and what it's really like

really? that's good news ... i think. might explain why people keep their distance so much in daily life. maybe life after abuse isn't the blissful dreamlife i thought it'd be. :S

Right, now we're getting somewhere.

welcome

wishing the best for both of you

thanks all, knowing some of these feelings are normal is a big relief. like, everything's been traumatic scary, but even looking past the trauma, things are still sorta difficult... for some reason i thought it'd all be easy street.

naw man. it's tough, especially at the beginning of the process as others here have said. you can do it, though.

It's okay, kiddo. If we can do it, you can do it.

I also find I have to inoculate myself to social interactions. If I spend too much time alone, which I am prone to do, it's like I forget how to interact with people. It's like any kind of anxiety: avoid the trigger, reinforce it.

yeah, i've experienced that, too. in times where i was socializing a lot it was made easier to keep doing it and there was less anxiety in general. when i'm spending every weekend alone doing nothing, it's like every interaction becomes an epic task.

holy crap, being busy would be a great thing to do. i keep forgetting about the depression component of all this.

watched tarkovsky's solaris last night. what a perfectly fitting film for everything that's going on, though i might be bringing that to the table.

don't watch any bresson films. or rather, maybe you should.

I had a thought which doesn't quite fit here but there's nobody else I can tell. It is possibly not worth telling at all but...

I've had this idea that I blame myself for everything. Well, I've been told that, as I instinctively apologise for things beyond my control, and self-blame is a commonly listed symptom of depression; and it satisfies my self-image as an unappreciated tragic figure. But there are times when I really have fucked up, and my first instinct is not to apologise but to scrabble for excuses as to why it wasn't my fault, why the universe did this bad thing and pinned the blame on me. How can I blame myself for "everything" but not these?

So it struck me: I don't blame myself for everything. I'm not sure I blame myself for anything. It's more like I expect others to blame me for everything.

How did I get here? I don't know. My parents weren't heavyhanded at blaming, and I can't remember being wrongly accused of anything as a child. The only time I can recall being blamed for something which I felt wasn't my fault was a very minor incident as an adult, when my negative thought patterns were probably already in place, and that blew over quickly with no repercussions.

Came to this while pondering my fear of social interaction, thinking through conversations which went badly and I decided the other person hated me. I expected my "self-talk" to have been "I fucked up and am socially inept" but had to admit I'd actually thought "that person was mean and setting me up for failure". More reasonable explanation: we both just misunderstood each other and I overreacted.

I'll regret this post tomorrow. You, dear reader, are probably regretting it already. Goodnight.

PS "depressives blame themselves for things beyond their control" - but then everything feels beyond a depressive's control, doesn't it? Thinking "if only I'd..." after the death of a neighbour you've never talked to may seem irrational, but to the depressive maybe it doesn't feel meaningfully any less in their control than e.g. misplacing something important or being needlessly late for work.

So, from that, maybe it's not just me. Depressives may express similar guilt and dismay at remote disasters as at their own mistakes, but maybe it's not just me who is thinking "it isn't really my fault that dinner is burnt because something distracting happened and how could I be expected etc etc" - the reaction may include blame-like words, but both are viewed equally not as things I could/should have prevented but as just two different motifs stitched into the grand tapestry of life's disappointment

or maybe I really am a fucking terrible narcissist and should stop tarring anyone else with the same brush. Like I said, goodnight.

I have no idea whether you are exhibiting symptoms of depression when you expect others to blame you for everything, spacecadet. All I can say about it is that one of the most interesting facets of living for nearly six decades has been the opportunity to learn about my brain's flaws, faults, crochets and design failures, by watching it at work, retrospectively, after I've allowed it to operate on its own 'normal' terms and suffered some undesirable consequence which then prompted me to go back over what I did and examine its actions in greater detail.

This kind of post-mortem on my idiocy has eventually become a form of meditation and self-realization and it assists me greatly in achieving a certain intermittent humility. But, of course, it does not guarantee I won't make the same stupid mistakes in the future (although it does help somewhat).

Sorry for babbling on this thread last night. I hadn't even drunk THAT much.

Thanks for your patience, Aimless. Your post seems wise.

do any of you have suggestions on learning better social skills? i never picked them up having spent almost my entire life with nobody to talk to and never having had a real relationship of any kind, on top of having nearly zero life experience beyond minor professional accomplishments.

Hey Spectrum, a little late, I feel you on this. The good thing about social skills, like so many other things, is that it's a learned and practicable thing. I like the site Succeed Socially. He is really reasonable and pragmatic, all about breaking things down to the very, very basics, and then practicing them, all the while recognizing that you will grow eventually but not have perfect social interactions all the time, especially while you're learning and practicing. It took me a long time to figure this stuff out – I'm way better than I used to be, socially, but reading this site still helps me out. And it would've helped me a lot more when I was just starting to try to interact with all kinds of people.

This thread is very moving.

Thanks Crabbits. Succeed Socially is a good site, I last read it half a year ago and it opened my eyes to some pretty important things, but a lot of it I just wasn't ready for yet. Maybe I'll look at it again, some of the things on there I've been discovering "organically" through therapy, abuse recovery, and all that, so I can prob get more out of it now. The block with social skills for me are the raw, intense emotions from the past that are present in my daily life that totally hijack any clear kind-of thinking, on top of unrealistically low self-esteem. I'm getting better with that, too, so I feel hopeful.

I think back to how I was a year ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, and I've really made a huge amount of progress. It's totally possible to work through this stuff, it's just hard, painful work, and it takes a looooooooong time, and I still have a ways to go.

Like, I've been working on this for about a year and a half now after finally realizing I was abused at around age 28, with 5 months in counselling, and the changes in my life so far would be unthinkable to me even a year ago; if me 10 years ago knew all this stuff, holy shit. Seeing a good therapist put me into an entirely different level of recovery, like the difference b/t driving in 1st gear and 5th gear. I honestly wouldn't have been able to get this far without her, so finding a trustworthy counsellor to work on these issues is essential. I have to thank the people on this thread for encouraging me to see someone, it's really made all the difference in my life.

I've been doing pretty well with depression and anxiety over the past few months, to the point where I feel ready to stop therapy (and my therapist agreed). Out of the blue Saturday night, I felt some really strong depressed feelings and suicidal urges, the kind I haven't felt since things were at their worst. Don't know where that came from, but it was very scary and lasted until I went to bed. The next day... feelings were completely gone. Seems like a total fluke - Saturday had been a good day overall, getting to see close friends, and it's not a particularly stressful or bad time for me right now - but it's not a fluke I've ever had happen before so I do feel a little concerned. Anyway, not really expecting any advice, more just getting this shit out and wondering if anyone has experienced similar.

I like the site Succeed Socially

I tried to read this because it is a thing I need to do but I felt all the muscles in my body tense up just reading about it so yeah, sign me up for continued avoidance

Vinnie, for years after I got out of the really deep hole I'd have occasional days or 2-day stretches where I was suddenly back there for no reason, and then just as suddenly return to being fine the next day. I think it's just a thing that happens and you just need to remember it'll pass (though bear in mind that drinking seems bad for triggering them, or it does in my experience - not that I seem to let that stop me), but it's probably worth hanging on to your therapist for at least a month or so more, mention your concerns, etc.

(^ trying to not just post terrible annoying bullshit that nobody can reply to because you're all too polite to tell me to shut up and then going "nobody replied, therefore I was right that I am a terrible person", but instead I am just offering trite parrotings of the bleeding obvious I guess. sry folx, best wishes Vinnie.)

Interesting, I had had a few drinks that night, though no more than a normal weekend really. Will definitely be bringing it up with my therapist for what was going to be our last session and see what he thinks. Thanks for sharing your experiences with this stuff, spacecadet, it was not trite or obvious to me at all. Really had no idea this was a thing that happens, that's comforting.

Remember reading a profile of the woman who invented dialectical behavioral therapy. She had borderline personality disorder, and even though her condition was well-managed, she mentioned having moments where blackness would sort of wash over her, but it was transient like you described. All this to say it is probably not so uncommon.

hey spacecadet, you are not being terrible, annoying, or bullshitty. Your voice is as important here as anybody else's. Please keep posting. You aren't annoying anybody.

No, you're not. Also, yr dilemma is one I feel almost every time I post.

I get the black tide rising whenever the things people mention over and over itt are not taken care of - sleep, regular meals, exercise, daylight. Alcohol is bad. Anything that reminds me of the more traumatic periods in my life, however obliquely, can bring it on. Sometimes it takes me ages to work out what's happened, but I almost have a checklist now. It helps.

Zora: Yeah I think that's probably what happened to me too, probably something reminded me of those darker times, subconsciously. It may be a good sign that it was so short. Haha I have something of a checklist too, that I go through before "evaluating" the state of my life. Basically when I feel shitty, my thoughts tend to go towards "you haven't made any progress, have you?" and now I make myself go through that checklist before making any large pronouncements about the state of things. Usually something on that checklist hasn't been met, and when I take care of it, the fog starts to lift. Lack of sleep is by far the number 1 thing that sends me downward.

ok, random dumb question, which i know will sound ridiculous. random people at work keep coming up to me and saying they saw me around and wanted to meet me. i've never seen these people anywhere ever. is this a good thing? it doesn't make any sense to me because I have no idea why anyone would want to meet me; i act like this when we're talking and, of course, disappoint them. people have been like this my whole life, approaching me and wanting to talk to me, hang out with me, and whatnot, and it has both confused and annoyed me.

i feel like i can't live up to whatever reason they wanted to talk to me! "you wanted to meet this shitbag standing in front of you? you're nuts"

You're nuts.

You are, in fact, clinically nuts. Apparently this is not expressed outwardly and/or if it is, it doesn't matter because you're super hot/cool so people don't care. You know that you're nuts and not qualified to judge how people see you based on how you see yourself. This is not news?

Sorry, I don't know why I keep bugging on this thread because I'm totally not depressed and I'm the least sympathetic person in the world. Sometimes I want to give some of you a big hug and others of you I want to shake until your heads snap back into place* and those twin impulses seem to bring me back again and again.

*Lovingly, of course.

woah, I wouldn't say that I'm nuts, I just need to learn a whole bunch of shit. maybe i'm leaning too much on this thread, I need to get back into the groove of therapy after a two-week hiatus.

I think in orbit forgot to jab her elbow into your ribs while tipping you a hard wink and chuckling as she said "you're nuts", so as to alert you to her facetious intentions. What she meant to convey in a lighthearted manner was that your perception of yourself as a shitbag is most certainly warped.

But, somehow I doubt it would have improved your understanding of her banter if she'd said, "You're warped!" instead.

Tsk tsk imo

ps APS etc obv ffs

Leanin on a thread is no great sin if it helps spectrum. Often wish i could contribute more itt tbh but plenty of others do good work here imo (EVEN SPACECADET AND IN ORBIT)

word

i didn't think in orbit was being malicious, maybe a little cranky. it's not a big deal. i need to keep remembering this is just warped thinking, but it's more like ... that positive thinking never happened, and so this is just my natural state. nothing's been warped because i never knew an identity beyond "sack of crap". that's the challenge, learning how to go from pile of human garbage to, at the very least, sentient effigy of human garbage. anything after that is icing on the cake.

thanks darraghmac, i feel the same way when others post on here.

depression clouds your perception of a lot of things; not only how you see yourself, but how you perceive others seeing you, even how you perceive the past. part of you going through therapy and all this work you're doing on yourself is to now be conscious of the veil between you and the rest of the world that's been obscuring what you see and what you take in...now is when you start taking a moment to take a breath, ~lift~ the veil, and consider what's being given to you, instead of taking it at face value like you would in the 'beforetimes'.

brand new world, etc.

sorry that's all kinda shitty metaphors, reads like a bad poem...but you get my drift, hopefully?

yeah, i do. i wish i knew a time before depression. i have little to no idea of the concept of someone liking me. it makes no sense whatsoever to me, like there's a receptor in my brain missing. and it makes sense, i spent way too much time growing up in total isolation, and any attempt to break out of it failed pretty badly cuz of the snowball effect from growing up in a righteously shitty home. this period in my life is like an awakening, and it's not like i'm getting my groove back, it's more like i'm getting my groove for the first time.

trust that. not to the point where you're wide open to *everything*, but for every few encounters that you instinctively recoil from, maybe accept one.

but whether or not you personally understand people liking you, you are aware that this is a thing that happens between people and maybe it's part of your new groove to find out what that looks like. consider it an anthropological undertaking :)

i do know what it looks like, everything's working inside of me, i just have to keep coming to terms with the fact that i'm not a flaming bag of dog shit left on someone's door step. it's happening slowly.

:)

sentient effigy of human garbage

Ok, that made me lol

So far your evidence for "sack of crap" is: You're a gainfully employed dude who escaped a horror-movie childhood and more recently a horror-movie roommate, and are interesting enough that random people want to meet you. Would you have the same assessment about this person if it wasn't you?

thanks PN, it's weird reading it that way.

this just made me realize my problem is i don't have a framework for relationships in my life. this positive stuff doesn't stick because i haven't been truly close to anyone, i never took that risk. i've had girlfriends and friends and shit, but all of that was in a disassociative state so it wasn't totally real to me. so maybe i have to take the risk and venture out and connect with people more for any of these positive things about myself to make sense. woah i don't even know how to comprehend this right now.

can you develop positive associations and models of thinking about other people, then map it back to yourself, like a kind of reverse-empathy?

no, has to be real people. i've done all i can sitting alone in a room thinking.

like, if people think i'm nice or cool or whatever, i'm just going to follow their lead, instead of making their decision for them that i suck.

Yeah I mean other, real people who you get to choose to model and see yourself through.

oh, I get what you're saying. that's a good idea (the former thing you said, i can't put my finger on the latter) ... thinking more positively about people may actually be pretty helpful.

holy shit, I went out with some co-workers tonight and had a lot of fun. the person who invited me said I was a blast! this was probably the most successful social time out i've had out since i was like, 10 years old. therapy really works. and i really appreciate the support here. can't believe things are actually starting to work here! yeah, i'm a little tipsy.