Sources tell SI Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003

i dont know abt personal integrity but the lol uneven playing field in baseball (tho more due to lack of a salary cap than steroids imo) has def hurt mlb - cause u know games are dependent on rules having some integrity

xxp: more pitchers than hitters have been caught abusing PEDs since the testing began.

This isn't a baseball slam, btw; I am hard-pressed to think of a single sport where I am concerned about the impact of alleged performance-enhancing controlled substances because I see them as an acceleration of something that is already happening anyway. People are becoming bigger, stronger, and faster by virtue of the wealth of our society and our obsession/insistence on "eating properly"; we know so much more about nutrition now, plus our livestock sciences are so thoroughly inundated with a myriad of substances to increase food production, that it seems that throwing in steroids is not going to give you an appreciable boost insurmountable by anyone else. Even if it does, if everyone else gets access to the same substances, it levels the playing field again, so I don't really see it as an issue. The people involved are adults; if they want to decide to do this, they are well within their rights. If they get caught and there are penalties, they will pay them. I still don't think they're "ruining the game". The game is the game; it always has been and it always will be. Players change all the time, records shuffle all over the place and it doesn't matter because 100 years from now someone else will be atop that leaderboard whether steroids are involved or not.

the lol uneven playing field in baseball (tho more due to lack of a salary cap)

Salary cap likely wouldn't work in MLB. Maybe someone can find that Prospectus bit a couple weeks ago that explained why.

I also want to point out that unless you're dealing with identically-raised clones, there will always be an imbalance between pitcher and hitter regardless of the use of steroids. I think people have a completely warped idea of what steroids actually do; they aren't magic make-you-perform-better pills.

im sure they could work something out doesnt have to be a hard cap - basketball has the whole bird rights system - just something where the rich teams dont take all the good players - obv they already have revenue sharing and the thing w/draft picks but its just not enough

dan they are basically magic make u perform better pills - obv yr starting w/a baseline talent - but theyll give a guy w/warning track power big home run numbers every time

Also guys, and this is important, Alex Rodriguez is a gigantic preening douche, and something embarrassing and 'image'-sullying has happened to him so let's keep our eyes on the prize and enjoy this as a cause for celebration.

otm

Stark and others who are so precious about the damn records: OF dimensions, mound height, balls and bats, playing surfaces, DH, number of teams, length of schedule, and uh, oh yeah, racism -- all things that have had equal or greater effect on "hallowed" records than steroids.

Many xposts, nosotros y (*ﾟーﾟ)θ L(。･＿･)　　　°~ヾ(･ε･ *) particularly OTM.

theyll give a guy w/warning track power big home run numbers every time

this is OTM. baseball is affected by this more than, say, basketball, where strength is important but doesn't translate so instantly into tangible results. the tiniest augmentation of force applied at the moment of impact has a big consequence. yes you still have to be able to hit major league pitching, which is beyond the grasp of 99.99 percent of the population, but if you can do that, bigger muscles translate directly into better hitting performance. it doesn't help with running or defense so much though and could actually hinder them (in the Old Days, ballplayers were leery of weightlifting because they were worried about becoming "musclebound")

David Wells (A PITCHER) stated that "25 to 40 percent of all Major Leaguers are juiced".[2003]

José Canseco stated on 60 Minutes and in his tell-all book Juiced that as many as 85% of players used steroids, and that he credited steroid use for his entire career.[2005]

they are basically magic ... theyll give a guy w/warning track power big home run numbers every time

icey (and Tracer), u mad. read The Juice by Will Carroll. Also note the number of warning-track players on the assorted Dirty Lists who stayed just as mediocre as they were.

i am SO glad we're having the same arguments for the 5000th time, too, fuckin' Slap-Rod

if it didn't work they wouldn't do it

yeah, just like Wade Boggs eating chicken every day.

lol i may hav been a bit ott w/my every time assertion but basically "icey otm"

who else has come to believe that 40%-70% of All-Star caliber players in the '90s and early '00s were "doing it"?

It was the environment of MLB in the era. Deal, or be Bob Costas.

don't steroids also heal you faster from nagging injuries- and prolong your carreer? or is that HGH?

anyway, come up with some hard and fast rules about it. apply it evenly and be done with it. more homeruns don't make baseball any more interesting to me

Deal, or be Bob Costas.

― Dr Morbius, Monday, February 9, 2009 12:18 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

omg which path 2 choose :O

There are "hard and fast rules." All the shitstorm around Bonds, Clemens and A-Rod is based on Pre-Penalty Era leaks to the media.

notice Curt Schilling uncharacteristically lunging for the spotlight:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2009/02/08/2009-02-08_curt_schilling_i_want_all_the_names.html

I know there are tools in every sport but why is it that the baseball tools are the tooliest (standing exception made for Terrell Owens)?

http://cache.thephoenix.com/i/OldBlogs/SoxBlog/schilling-curt-main.jpg
i want all the names

OMG schill is the bestest

can schill make an appearance in the peyton manning movies

Also guys, and this is important, Alex Rodriguez is a gigantic preening douche, and something embarrassing and 'image'-sullying has happened to him so let's keep our eyes on the prize and enjoy this as a cause for celebration.

― Safe Boating is No Accident (G00blar)

even if you don't care about steroids, please think of this and all the laughing, pointing children

btw i'm not a scientist and i just sort of can't get mad at steroids users now. these days i would just be slightly more impressed if i found out for 100% certain that some dude who averaged 45 HR a year for awhile never did use any PEDs. i guess i do think that steroids help some of these guys, but probably only the already good or great players. steroids can't really help you make solid contact or take a walk, so if cesar izturis started juiced he might hit 2 more HR per year but then he would still be only hitting 3 HR per year.

juicedjuicing

yeah, just like Wade Boggs eating chicken every day.

― Dr Morbius, Monday, February 9, 2009 12:15 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^ pretty strong zing

boggs invented obp by eating chicken fyi

nothing's changed, argues Tim Marchman (note "no one has ever presented credible evidence proving that performance-enhancing drugs make athletes better at playing baseball"):

http://www.slate.com/id/2210814/

In the end, no matter how much the shrieking moralists might like to pretend otherwise, drug use hasn't done much harm to baseball at all. In their day, genuinely likable players like McGwire and Sosa were held up as real paragons of virtue and saviors of a benighted sport; the destruction of their reputations and the actual admissions made by equally likable players such as Jason Giambi and Andy Pettitte haven't damaged baseball a bit. You can prove that more or less every great ballplayer is an outright fraud, but you can't make anyone like baseball a jot less for it. It's still an open question whether this fact will ever settle in: People don't care much more about whether their favorite ballplayers take drugs than they care about whether Michael Phelps likes to get high. In the meantime, expect Alex Rodriguez to hit a lot of home runs and to be hated by everyone who watches baseball—exactly what would have happened had SI never run its report at all.

is there any way to actually prove or disprove the effects of steroids on performance other than statistics? serious q.

casting everyone who thinks steroids have damaged the game as a shrieking moralist is no more insightful than shrieking moralizing

uh

uh what

i would argue that most ppl in column 1 tend to come with more science than those in column 2, but yes we've had this discussion before

OK so then there are two options:

1) PEDs make athletes better at baseball. well this sucks because not every baseball player uses PEDs and so the game is unfair.

2) PEDs do not make athletes better at baseball. ok wtf you morons stop taking them! why am i supposed to feel better about this?

Honestly everyone in the who cares camp should be arguing for full amnesty for players who used (and continue to use) provided they admit it publicly.

I also want to point out that unless you're dealing with identically-raised clones, there will always be an imbalance between pitcher and hitter regardless of the use of steroids.

again, are you serious w/this?

having to deal w/peoples opinions abt steroids has def damaged the game - like me for instance i dont even really like baseball - i just came here to lol @ arod and now im engaged in this redundant argument - now in my mind baseball=inane hand wringing

nice1 canseco

You can prove that more or less every great ballplayer is an outright fraud

If this guy can back this statement up he'll be set for life

xpost well yeah this is the problem--previously i could lol at arod for plenty of perfectly valid reasons but w/this i would technically have to lol at like 200 other guys as well.

lol the world brody http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:xqDSIkAyxTmQiM:http://microscopiq.com/images/mushroom-clown-ps3.jpg

like me for instance i dont even really like baseball

we could tell when you mentioned "salary cap"

and perhaps by the "magic make u perform better pills" thing

mets sux

call me blinky...

arod supposedly being interviewed by gammons later today

yah i'm with morbz on the 'doesn't really make u better' idea. like someone said above 'roids are designed to shorten recovery times and yeah build muscle mass but until i see some real evidence that shows an appreciable change in the ability to PLAY BETTER, i'm not going to care that much. (not that no one should care--for example i think it sets a shitty example for kids, considering how terrible roids are for yr body and the fact that most kids who take roids in HS arent going to amount to anything in pro ball.)

it's like, a pitcher putting vaseline on the ball will be able to manipulate the ball better and thus have a real, tangible, DIRECT advantage on a micro level; a batter (or pitcher obvs) taking roids might have more muscle and might be in better shape than he would have, but it's an indirect advantage and doesnt necessarily make him better at baseball. does any of that make sense?

and a las vegas stripper? this guy