& Italian: tetraonidi
― garfield drops some dank n' dirty dubz at 2am (unregistered), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
But as far as "rabbit," which I had thought of before but forgotten, aren't "conejo" and "Kaninchen" related?
Yep. English has a cognate for this as well, which is "coney". So bear in mind that if you're looking to find something with no cognates in those five languages, you have to be aware of related terms. A bit of semantic drift in cognates is to be expected.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
does 'pimp' work?I don't trust google translate -- i thought pimp was 'mec' but it says 'souteneur'
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
Thought "mec" was just slang for "guy," originally from Arabic, I think. Think the the word you want is "maquereau," which also means "mackerel."
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
If I could cheat by swapping French for Finnish and Polish, the word for "German" works here:
English: GermanSpanish: alemánGerman: DeutschItalian: tedescoPolish: NiemieckiFinnish: Saksa
― Josefa, Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
If "mec" isn't slangy enough you can always use verlan and say it backwards to get "keum"
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
Italian: tedescoPolish: Niemiecki
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
And yeah, 'coney.' Presumably at one point Coney Island was overrun with rabbits.
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
i only know 'mec' because james lipton from the actor's studio was briefly a pimp in france.
maybe 'mack' comes from 'maquereau'?
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
Always wondered where 'tedesco' came from, if maybe the word was related to 'Deutsch.'
Apparently you're right. From a language message board I get the explanation that "theodiscus" was a German dialectal word meaning something like "of the people," first cited in 786 AD and which later evolved into Deutsch (German), tedesco (Italian), and teuton (French).
― Josefa, Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
English: boyFrench: garconGerman: jungeItalian: ragazzoRussian: malchikSpanish: nino
I'm probably too sleepy to think these through properly.
― Head Cheerleader, Homecoming Queen and part-time model (ShariVari), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
re: boy, i looked up 'cowboy' and couldn't find one for german, which seems odd.
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
Old Shatterhand?
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
Cowboy is Cowboy in German.
― Josefa, Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:17 (eleven years ago) link
Hut is German for hat. Pizza Hut chose not to change its name when they expanded into Germany, so it's known there as Pizza Hat.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
'Boy' looks good. thanks, ShariVari. iirc, Danish, Swedish and Norwegian all have a different word for this. Is "child" related to "Kind"? If not, then that also should work.
Thanks to everybody else as well- I was afraid this thread would end up a barren Bergmanesque howl into the void on a dreary winter Sunday aka What You Talkin Bout, Willis? but it has shaped up pretty nicely. Now back to my errands.
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
oh 'nightmare' seemed close except for the mar part of 'cauchemar'
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:36 (eleven years ago) link
The OED is undecided as to whether "child" is related to "Kind":
from root *kilþ- , whence also Gothic kilþei womb, inkilþô pregnant woman. Not found elsewhere: in the other West Germanic languages its place is taken by kind.As the form of Old High German, Old Saxon, Old Frisian kind is not satisfactorily explained from the root ken- (Aryan gen-) ‘beget, bear’, and is, for Low German at least, quite irregular, Prof. Sievers suggests the possibility that kind is a perversion of cild, kilþ-, by assimilation to the derivatives of root ken-, which may have spread from Old High German to Old Saxon and Frisian.
As the form of Old High German, Old Saxon, Old Frisian kind is not satisfactorily explained from the root ken- (Aryan gen-) ‘beget, bear’, and is, for Low German at least, quite irregular, Prof. Sievers suggests the possibility that kind is a perversion of cild, kilþ-, by assimilation to the derivatives of root ken-, which may have spread from Old High German to Old Saxon and Frisian.
Also pied wagtails are great. (Sorry, I only really came in here to suggest "butterfly", but no need, as it was example #2)
― susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:43 (eleven years ago) link
if there are related terms that are cognates, you're not finished yet.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:55 (eleven years ago) link
pow!es: pumde: zackfr: bangit: prigioniero di guerra ????
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
Not quite sure what you mean, fh, that this thread does not meet academic standards and will be rejected by a journal? Please elucidate.
The butterfly page that was linked is great, especially the "ladybug" digression. One more thing about that is the Portuguese word "borboleta" also means "turnstile," in Portugal at least.
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 23:11 (eleven years ago) link
Pow! reminds me to list:En: Ready, Set, Go!Es: Preparados, Listos, Ya!De: Achtung, Fertig, Los!Fr: A vos marques! Prêts? Partez!
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
Back to boy:Swedish: pojkeNorwegian: guttDanish :dreng
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, the Swedish is like the Finnish, "poika".
(As featured in chapter 1 of "Teach Yourself Finnish", the only chapter I made it through.)
― susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Sunday, 24 February 2013 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
you're starting with an english word and then trying to find non-cognates of it from other languages based on the meaning of the english word. but cognates don't necessarily have the same meaning... they have the same origin.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Sunday, 24 February 2013 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
Fr: A vos marques! Prêts? Partez!
Isn't the first part of this "on your marks", though? Which is an often used English alternative, and surely cognate?
― emil.y, Sunday, 24 February 2013 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
fh, isn't that the point? Trying to find phrases where the expressions that transmit the same meaning are non-cognates in multiple languages? I'm not sure what your problem is with the idea.
― emil.y, Sunday, 24 February 2013 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
I thought fh meant something like your example, emil.y, where another word or phrase exists like "on your marks," but I guess not. Truth be told I didn't remember or know the French expression and had to look it up, I guess it doesn't quite work.
Not starting with the English word, fh, starting with the idea that there is a thing that is a *Shark* which has names in four (or more) languages that are not etymologically related. Don't want to get into any philosophical discussion of Signifying Intentional Zombies or "What is it like to be a bat?" or 'Der Schnee ist weiß' if and only if snow is white.
Oh, the Swedish is like the Finnish, "poika".This happens a lot in Swedish, I think Finnish is an official language in Sweden. Just looked up "butterfly" in a Swedish dictionary and got "fjäril" which I guess is from Finnish but it turns out they also have "sommarfågel."
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:03 (eleven years ago) link
Well, take the French garcon. It does have a German cognate, Recke, which means warrior. An English one as well... wretch. So... it's not a non-cognate with German, or English. See what I'm saying?
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
I should come clean and say my ultimate goal is to not let another interesting linguistics thread disappear.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:32 (eleven years ago) link
OK, here is the thing that prompted the creation of this thread, long in gestation, this weekend. I still keep wondering whether I am missing something, if I have formulated the problem correctly or if it really works. Or if it really works, is it anti-climactic, so what?. So, my theory, which is mine is that there is a certain chess piece, which moves diagonally on one specified shade of light or dark throughout the entire game which is called
En: the bishopFr: le fouDe: der LäuferEs: el alfil
The bishop, the fool, the runner, and (from the Persian) the elephant rider(!?).
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
fh, I kind of thought that's what you meant but I guess is should have specified, and I think it is fair to specify, that is OK if a cognate exists, as long as it is not a common word for the exact same thing.
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:35 (eleven years ago) link
OK, alfil is just an elephant.
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
But still.
(It's that "the" "the" thing that happens when Spanish and Arabic mix)
It's a different thing then the rest, it is not a name of an animal, like tipsy mothra mentioned, which makes it that much more amazing that it didn't get more standardized.
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:44 (eleven years ago) link
Your move, ILX.
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:46 (eleven years ago) link
Shark is actually pretty disparate... German and Icelandic words for shark are cognates (Haifisch and hákarl), but I can't chase down much else!
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:48 (eleven years ago) link
you really gonna make me google "non-cognate" on a sunday afternoon?― scott seward, Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:40 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinklittle-known original line in the Rascals' "Groovin'".― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, February 24, 2013 3:16 PM (4 hours ago)
― scott seward, Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:40 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
little-known original line in the Rascals' "Groovin'".
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, February 24, 2013 3:16 PM (4 hours ago)
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:55 (eleven years ago) link
Songs this thread is making me think ofhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zgB1Jfpjdw
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:57 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYk1iVEezAg
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
^ YES
― marc robot (seandalai), Monday, 25 February 2013 01:01 (eleven years ago) link
Holy Haifisch, Fledermausmensch, I never knew this version existed:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcnEur8lrXc
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QXJ3OXWaOY(You've got to wait through some Broadway ad)
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpe_KHDEfgwDO U SEE?
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 01:15 (eleven years ago) link
I thought this would work:
English: hedgehogFrench: hérissonItalian: riccioGerman: igel
But no. Looking at the Spanish (erizo) made me realise I'd overlooked the connection between hérisson and riccio.
Still interesting, though.
― emil.y, Monday, 25 February 2013 01:21 (eleven years ago) link
hedgehogs are excellent
― hey, corsano's no pussy, dude (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 25 February 2013 01:25 (eleven years ago) link
the near-misses like hedgehog and squirrel are still awesome.
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 25 February 2013 01:26 (eleven years ago) link
"computer" in icelandic is "tölva" which apparently comes from the Old Norse word for their compass-like unit, talwôn.
― þjóðaratkvæðagreiðsla (clouds), Monday, 25 February 2013 01:41 (eleven years ago) link
Another miss here, but three distinct strands of naming.
English: buttercupGerman: Butterblume
French: bouton d'orSpanish: botón de oro
Italian: ranuncolo
Probably not worth posting any more of the three-stranders, as there will be shedloads out there.
Speaking of which (and this is via google translate, so I'm aware there may be synonymous cognates that just haven't come up)...
English: shedFrench: hangar (not counting as a similar cognate because hangars are pretty different to sheds, right? Or is this cheating?)German: SchuppenSpanish: cobertizoItalian: capannone
― emil.y, Monday, 25 February 2013 01:42 (eleven years ago) link
(En) bird(Es) pájaro (Fr) oiseau (De) Vogel(It) uccello
― The Hillbilly Chespirito (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 September 2019 10:18 (four years ago) link
Oiseau and uccello both come from the same Latin word, aucellus.
― Tuomas, Thursday, 26 September 2019 11:07 (four years ago) link
Was wondering. But the first four seem to work, I think.
― The Hillbilly Chespirito (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 September 2019 11:43 (four years ago) link
Vogel / fowl
― Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Thursday, 26 September 2019 14:45 (four years ago) link
Okay, thanks but “fowl” and “bird” are not related.
― The Hillbilly Chespirito (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 September 2019 14:51 (four years ago) link
Think maybe I found another, if my Zing search worked properly
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 30 January 2020 01:07 (four years ago) link
Not a 'thing' per se depending on your definition but…
E: nowF: maintenantS: ahoraG: jetzt
Bonus Romanian: acum
― pomenitul, Thursday, 30 January 2020 08:41 (four years ago) link
Inspired by Learned League.
E: uglyF: laidI: bruttoS: feoG: hässlich
― Swoler Bear (Leee), Saturday, 30 May 2020 17:39 (three years ago) link
E: duckF: canardS: pato G: enteI: anatra Maybe ente and anatra are related?
― Joey Corona (Euler), Saturday, 30 May 2020 20:58 (three years ago) link
Apparently so, if you go as far back as proto-Indo-European, which seems kind of tenuous anyway.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:00 (three years ago) link
This is the one I was thinking ofE: roomF: pièceS: habitaciónG: Zimmer
Which is somewhat unsatisfactory because of the chambers and salons I am avoiding.
― Ernani and the Professor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:06 (three years ago) link
Yeah I think there are metaphysical problems there of what is a room
― Joey Corona (Euler), Sunday, 31 May 2020 06:52 (three years ago) link
English: pillowGerman: KissenFrench: oreillerSpanish: almohadaItalian: cuscinoPortuguese: travesseiroWelsh: gobennydd
― Alba, Friday, July 14, 2017 5:51 AM (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink
this one occurred to me today.
although "guanciale" might have been a better, if slightly awkward, choice for the italian — since both "Kissen" and "cuscino" seem to come via old french "coussin"
― budo jeru, Wednesday, 18 November 2020 17:17 (three years ago) link
This thread inspired me (in part) to name a set of songs i recorded after HEDGEHOGS in 7 different languages. Thank you to emil.y for the hedgehog inspo and all thread contributors for non-cognate inspo <3
https://on.soundcloud.com/xW2Xp
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 22 February 2023 00:47 (one year ago) link
English/French/Spanish/Language Makes No Sense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shorts
― Hideous Lump, Wednesday, 22 February 2023 05:50 (one year ago) link
Listening to the hedgehog songs now - they're great, LL!
― emil.y, Wednesday, 22 February 2023 14:14 (one year ago) link
Thanks for listening!! 💕 I’m proud of these, hence the proper names.
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 22 February 2023 14:40 (one year ago) link