Rolling 'this is sexist' thread

CIS-kill cliff

In this day and age, it’s usually the parent’s choices (exception: rape) that created the kid in the first place.

i am picturing him pausing and raising a finger, "exception: rape," magnanimous, graciously allowing the possibility that ~sometimes~ children aren't choices, and now i am picturing clenching all the blood out of my fists

yeah that was awfully big of him to make that exception

the lesson here of course is that college newspapers are a repository for the absolute worst people on the planet

obv

tho dollars:donuts ilx is home to a great deal of former collegiate journos

ha yeah no shame in that, i wrote for my school paper briefly too. HATED IT

Sir, voting is a right of every citizen. It does not matter if you are a 'contributing' citizen, because the moment you put qualifications on voting then you've opened to door wide open to tyranny, bcz who the fuck decides who 'contributes'? Some fuckwad like you? Not in my country, you don't.

yeah that bit jumped out at me as well. what a fucker.

this was in the political cartoon section:
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/dailynebraskan.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/67/2678794e-660e-11e2-9b7a-0019bb30f31a/510108a7304c9.image.jpg

olive posted at 5:09 pm on Sat, Feb 23, 2013.
olive Posts: 1

Zach,

I sat next to you two years ago at Selleck Dining Hall. Not only did you refuse to be a decent human being by introducing yourself as Zach Nold, you decided to declare women as "fire-breathing dragons." I didn't care so much for what you had to say then nor do I care for anything you have to say now. Your former brothers from Kappa Sigma even looked at you with a little confusion after you made this statement. It's pretty apparent that you've had a complex for women far longer than anyone could guess.

also why is it whenever you see a picture of one of these weird misogynist 'i've been around the block a coupla times let me tell you about these females' they always always ALWAYS without fail look like wallflower virgins who aren't even ready to shave yet?

in my day fire-breathing dragons were considered cool, I guess I am out of touch :(

'The fact is women have become so independent and focused on their work many have forgotten how to have a relationship based on mutual understanding and cooperation. Instead, it has become a competition, and feminism has turned relationships into a competition of equality as well.'

Finding this very difficult to parse. He's basically ignoring that 'a relationship based on mutual understanding and cooperation' is a lot easier to have if both people work rather than one person working and the other not, because then their 'understanding' of work can be 'mutual'.

Alternatively it's not really worth analysing and he's just using mutual understanding to sugar coat the assertion that women shouldn't be out working. Also the assumption that 'a relationship' is more important than work: is that true for everyone? Is there any reason why it should be? People are allowed to want to devote their life to work, right

You are giving way too much credit to Misogynist College Op-Ed Man's capacity for critical thinking. If he were capable of it he wouldn't be a Misogynist College Op-Ed Man.

anything more than "fuck this guy" is thinking too much about him imo

otm

What even is a "competition of equality"? Is that when you, Important Man of Household, hold forth on a topic like your day at work or your exciting thoughts for half an hour, and your gf annoyingly feels the need to drop in a few words about her own workday/thoughts/interests to remind you that she has some too?

I mean how dare she, gotta cut that shit off immediately with "why are you always complaining about this stuff, I don't even know what you do or who any of these people are" just to show how wrong she is that anything she is or does could possibly even approach equality to you, right?

Probably not going to change my username to 'exception : rape', but sure was tempted for a couple minutes there.

Not really sure what to think about this:

https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464

Basically, as far as I can tell, guy makes inappropriate lewd jokes at tech conference (I guess in an under-the-breath but audible way to his friend while sitting in the audience), this twitterer outed him with a pic, he got fired. Of course she didn't ask for him to be fired, so that's not on her, but was it right for her to publicly "out" him for this? And how bad was it for him to make this sort of joke at a conference? I'm not trying to be po faced about this, I'd really like people to weigh in on how uncomfortable this kind of joke in this kind of scenario makes them -- it's not the sort of thing I do anyway, but it's the sort of thing I would more actively make sure not to do if it really makes people uncomfortable.

He deserves death

T/F: this wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been sporting smug beards

reading the responses this woman is getting on some of the links associated with this, half the tech industry needs to be fired over this

I don't get what forking repos means, but making a joke about big dongles doesn't seem sexist in itself to me, it could well just be harmlessly silly. But she's not very specific about what was actually said and to whom - there are definitely ways in which it could be inappropriate enough to call out. If it was during a female speaker, and it was consistently undermining the speech, with comments like "I'd show her my big dongle if you know what I mean", then yes, call it out, it's sexist. Still not sure posting a photo to twitter is the best way to go even in that case, but it would be more understandable.

xp - yeah, now looking at some male responses, and THEY are grossly sexist.

Perfectly acceptable to publicly out jerks.

apparently the joke made was "I'd like to fork his repo!" which the joke-maker then went on to claim had no sexual connotation on one of those links despite sexual connotation being the sole reason why that format of joke came into being in the first place

I don't think going "lol, big dongles" is the sign of being a jerk, though. But then I have an incredibly puerile sense of humour.

Their employer might have overreacted, but if they were there on company business, they were sitting behind what appears to be one of the only women in the room and making sexually-charged "jokes" probably violates their employer's code of conduct. She is totally within her rights to do what she did, because I really don't think confronting them would do anything constructive other than get the kind of nasty responses she's received on twitter and in comments.

Were it me, I'd probably turn around and give them a dirty look or tell them to knock it off, but they'd more likely see me as a peer, not because I'm a developer and around their age, but because I'm male.

Writes about it on her blog.
http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/

Get the impression that it wouldn't have been an issue had the jokes actually been funny.

i doubt dude was fired *for being sexist* but more likely because he failed to represent his employer in a professional manner at an industry event, which is a pretty solid grounds for dismissal imho.

My first question isn't "Is this sexist?", it's "Is he 5?"

So much of the commenting is, as usual, people projecting their biases on the situation, but one of the guys in the picture managed to stick with it and say that she was within her rights and that he was sorry, at which point she wrote that she felt him being fired was an overreaction and that she'd be glad to speak to his now ex-employer. Which is great because the hacker news crowd piles on and then tells him he's wrong.

Anyone who dug into her updates and made some sort of "but, she plays Cards Against Humanity later at the conference, how can she claim to be offended?!?" comment should probably die in a fire

this is tough since the harmless seeming beavis and buttheadedness of the jokes (as described so far) possibly masks how in context (and especially when only a few women present at the whole thing) those sort of jokes are indeed aggressive towards the women present.

@renejsum thank you. I did it for future generations who will attend as well

if I were a woman at these conferences I'd have a chip on my shoulder, too, considering we're still only a couple years out from some dude making "this code is hot" jokes punctuated by a slide that was just pictures of women in bikinis or w/e

on the one hand, I think everyone has the right to work in the tech industry and not have to feel threatened by dumb sexual comments & jokes. otoh, lol, dongles

Yes. I was half-heartedly writing a post saying that the reason these "jokes" exist is that public spaces/tech world/humor that's out there to consume are very often profoundly sexist and it leads to ANYONE thinking that this kind of commenting is even BASELINE ACCEPTABLE, much less makes you a totally cool dude. But it seemed like a lot of work and I haven't had any tea yet.

Sorry, the "Yes" was to ryan.

I think what bothers me most about this sort of thing is wanting a little more clarity on what is absolutely verboten. I'm an almost pathologically polite person in the workplace, so I'm rarely in a situation where I have to worry, but I've crossed the line once or twice and it can be confusing, especially when there are women in the office who make comments I wouldn't dare to make. It's also because I work with a bunch of old lawyers.

I think the expression "chip on her shoulder" is pretty unhelpful here, though--unless it was taken from her writing or s/thing? I haven't followed all the links.

here's a hint on what is verboten: if you suddenly discover you have been talking about genitals, you have likely crossed a line

Says DJP.

dongle j. penis

I'd actually carry a cinder block around on my shoulder, tbh.

I mean, in the brief window years and years and years ago when I was single and in college, I had paralyzing fear of talking to women I didn't know who found attractive, partially because I didn't want to be rejected but mostly because I didn't want to be accused of sexual harassment, which given my incredibly crude sense of humor felt very much like a justifiable fear. Shortly after I began dating my future wife, I started hanging out with her female friends and realized something I already knew from my circle of friends back home but had forgotten; barriers come down when you get to know people and being willing to apologize and not repeat offenses if you cross someone's line is the definition of being a polite person. Furthermore, only an asshole allows whatever weird gross things they find funny affect the way they treat other people. If you give people the type of respect you want, you will likely get it; those who don't return it are the ones you should steer clear of, and it's that foundation of respect and understanding that gives you the ability to take light license with propriety because everyone involved understands that the communication isn't serious or in earnest, and that you don't actually think less of the person you are saying these socially inappropriate things to. You don't get to be That Person without putting in the prep work.

in summation, lol dicks r funny <-- a joke 12 years in the making

Lady found something uncomfortable and reported it. Any beef should be addressed to her employer.

Er, his employer

otm

I think I agree with you there, yes. But whether or not you deserve to be publicly pilloried for failing to realise such things is different. Having said that, it looks like her initial tweets were directed to the staff requesting action on their part, as opposed to the initially linked tweet, which is more of a public shaming.

I definitely agree with people's observations that tech environments are not welcoming to women, and that that can escalate the feeling of hostility coming from otherwise innocuous comments. I am also hating the comments that say "oh, if you weren't so x about it then I might agree", because that is such bullshit regulation of female behaviour.