the Shiina Ringo thread

well, you're right, actually the irony is still there, and this keeps it distinct from most Jpop, still feels like it's geared more for adults than kids. to tone down my point -- relative to their previous two records, this is a huge leap closer to what it's modelled on

but it's weird, if 90's Jpop was modelled on various Western genres, this is more like a Japanese band consolidating the idea of 90's Jpop, very self-consciously

What about all the 70's pop/rock stylings though? (At least in the songs I've heard from the album?) Doesn't that make it different too? Or is that pretty much the norm for J-pop and J-rock (I think some of the stuff I've heard from the EPs is more J-rock than J-pop)?

The idea & not really the sound, right? Fukushuu is the only one that sounds a bit like a calcified J-genre thing. The consolidation of what was already a kind of consolidation is an interesting idea wrt slight difference from an original model (which in turn appropriated from another model).

(Also, if part of the idea of 90's Jpop was Shiina herself, maybe she is reshuffled "Shiina" now in the band).

TJ's sleeve art trajectory - pop painting -> commodity sculpture -> rephotography - is so much more appropriation (of appropriation), so it's brilliant or it's empty sleekness (hence the polarized responses?) or maybe both.

I mean, nobody is doing deconstructive gymnastics while listening to this album but all the process stuff (arguably) makes that needed difference in terms of pleasure. That's the bigger question I guess.

I'm giving it a first listen now, and it sounds pretty good overall. (Sorry, no ideas here at the moment, just crude impressions.)

I seriously don't think I'm going to end up liking it as much as Adult, but I see more point to it than HF (not that that's saying much). "Tsukigime-Hime" reminds me a lot of Go!Go!7188, though I guess it's necessarily more fleshed out.

But I like it a little more than I had expected.

I really like "Boutomin" a lot, including the "Kabuki"-quoting at the end. Also, maybe predictably, I like "Kronekodow."

"Kronekodow," including the faux Latin jazz ending!

I think "Pinocchio" and especially "Kaban no Nakami" deserve a place on the album more than some of the tracks that made it ("Fukushuu," for example). "Kaban no Nakami" has maybe her most satisfactory English lyrics and the singing on it is okay, so if she was going to include some English language tracks, she should have included that one.

"Boutomin" real reminds me of Drums & Wire era XTC, in a way--not that it ends up really sounding anything like them. (Also reminds me of what I rememember Gino Vanelli sounding like, although I never liked him.)

(Making the usual useless comparisons here.)

Am I crazy to hear parts of "Fukushuu" as real close to "Gone Baby Gone"?

It will take a few months to know if I've just brainwashed myself into liking this, but I really do mostly like it. Even the weaker tracks don't feel like the type I must skip over.

liveblogging as always, RS

but you're not brainwashed, or if you are I am too. this music has the sound of music I usually hate, so it does prompt some gymnastics -- I'm afraid of 'empty sleekness' but this music is just way, way too clever to actually be empty, there is a point where the form becomes its own thing

I don't hear "Gone Baby Gone" but Izawa's keyboard solo in "Princess Monthly" is a bizarre transcription of the organ line in "Light My Fire" forced to fit a completely different chord sequence. jigsaw puzzle for music geeks

these CDs are so expensive I usually reburn CDRs of them for car listening, and I was never tempted to do that for Heisei Fuuzoku, not even a comp -- but Variety, already reburned, with 'OSCA' / 'Killer Tune' b-sides & all three tracks of the "Konoyo no Kagiri" single (that single by itself is better than HF as an album)

but Izawa's keyboard solo in "Princess Monthly" is a bizarre transcription of the organ line in "Light My Fire" forced to fit a completely different chord sequence. jigsaw puzzle for music geeks

I neglected to mention that (but that one I saw pointed out already on Electric Mole). Actually, I didn't catch it on my own, probably because of the peculiarity of it that you describe.

I don't agree about the "Konoyo no Kagiri" EP, except I do prefer the instrumental version of "Karisome Otome" that appears there to the album one with vocals. It's definitely hard slogging through all of HF, and I have my own edit.

I like the way parts of "Boutomin" sound like music for a kiddie TV show. (I could imagine puppets singing some of this.)

Most annoying song: "Fukushuu." I'm having trouble finding any redeeming value in that one.

"Fukushuu" is the only song on the album that throws me off the trail a bit, silly metal

Hedofloe on EM posted the composition credits

on a Saito Neko tangent, Mutant Sounds just posted the debut of his band Killing Time, their strongest / strangest. and my favorite track from the Haniwa All Stars DVD finally made it to youtube -- that's Saito on violin with the headgear

"Fukushuu" is the only song on the album that throws me off the trail a bit, silly metal

It's not really all that metal (not that I'm into metal at all--but I like some of the more metal sounding metal they've done in the past).

The beginning of "Metro" keeps reminding me of "Genius of Love" even though the two songs obviously don't sound much alike overall.

I love the doo-doo-DOO-doo-doo part on "Metro."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOQvRFt2Eho

(MP, what do you think about asking a moderator to change the thread title to "the Shiina Ringo and Tokyo Jihen thread"? I don't want to ask since you are the OP. Or should we start a new Tokyo Jihen thread?--but isn't it a little late for that?)

Does Uki say something about "a tall man lady" in "Boutomin" or is that just me straining to make sense of lyrics I can't quite hear?

I gave in and ordered a copy.

"Fukushuu" is laughably bad. It's a shame it comes smack in the middle of the album, but it would be out of place anywhere else on it. I think any of the EP songs that weren't included would have been a better substitute.

It's almost like I distrust this album for being so happy, especially because I can't stop listening to it

also, unlike earlier Shiina & Jihen albums... I'm not listening to this one like an album, I'm skipping around, going for my favorite tracks. I remain mostly an album-listener as opposed to an iPod / singles listener precisely because of trust, I mainly want to listen to artists capable enough to assemble a sustained statement, when I listen to nothing but quality singles for a few hours I get numbed out, I feel promiscuous in a bad way

Though I was wrong about what I said upthread about empty -- the songs are slick and Shiina's vocals are not surface, they are deep, when she goes for it on the chorus of 'Metro' there are a couple of seconds where you realize it's not a happy song at all, and then before you can even blink, they've turned the sunlamp back on

a great record, the fear

I'm still waiting for my copy from cdjapan. I hope it didn't get lost in the mail.

I don't care that the songs aren't as perfect as songs, and aren't as melodically transcendent (sorry, I'm too tired to choose better words) as the ones Shiina Ringo writes typically are. There's a lot else to like about this album. There are great little harmonic things all over it. (At least I think that's what they are--non-musician speaking.)

And yes, attention to detail, in general.

(Still waiting for actual CD, and then I'll go comment on Electric Mole once I have that I guess. Hi guys.)

Rockist! You are all over this thing!

And maybe Sasha Frere-Jones should be listening to Tokyo Jihen instead of all those indie bands.

x-post:

I know. Apologies. I think it's partly because I keep posting these one to three sentence comments.

You should check out the new album, if you haven't.

Only just recieved the CD of this, the artwork is really great!

I have the CD now. I'm not entirely satisifed with the sound (and I mean in terms of production and SOUND, I don't me the style of the music). It seems to be a step back from Adult. It doesn't seem as full as it should be. Maybe I've spent too much time listening to it on small PC speakers and it seems to spread out on stereo speakers? I'd say the sound improves on the second half of the album. Now that I actually have the CD, I'm feeling a little less into it--so, bummer. I still like it, I just find more ambivalence creeping back.

I think they probably should have sat on this a while more, pulled it together more somehow.

Call me crazy, but this one is actually pulling me in for repeated listens more than the previous two! I don't know what I was expecting from it, but it's much much better than I thought it would be.

yeah I'm torn about this one for all the longterm fanboy reasons -- many Shiina trademarks have gone missing from the music and I miss them -- but the result is something that I think is going to pull in a lot of people. J-pop fans who can do Puffy & Pizzicato 5 sweetness overload won't be frightened off by the intense noise & drama, and yet the new album is still enough of a polished J-pop/Western pop hybrid that it won't activate any sugar allergies that keep most people away from J-pop

I still love the record, save for that total bomb right in the middle -- but maybe it is time Jihen get their own thread

their new tour has just started -- evidently they're going for all out rock, sounds good, wish she were touring here

maybe it is time Jihen get their own thread

Do it.

I was thinking about doing it after hearing the new album.

I came "this" close...

But I thought it might have been done by now.

I think someone else needs to start the 'Tokyo Jihen - Variety' thread

in the meantime, new DVD-only single 'Senkou Shoujo' (written by Kameda)

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=ylyX11ewFVU

pretty emo'd out! nice nod to Bergman's 'Persona' at the end

Good, but a little average, but it has to be given time.

Why does youtube.com think I'm in Spain now? Everything's coming up in Spanish and Spain is given as my location.

Same thing is happening with me too.

I think it has something to do with the link. When I went into youtube cold, it went away.

yes it's very average. reminds me mostly of _other J-pop bands_. I still love it, but it's been a long slow road from crazy to get me here

I suspect non-crazy peoples won't have any problems taking to this at all though, it is quality.

showing a friend of mine the Tokyo Incidents - Souretsu DOMESTIC! Virgin LINE clip, she noted that the last line 'Your face. / Let me see it, please.' is a spin on the Japanese custom of asking someone to pull back a sheet that's covering the face of the deceased so one can pay their respects with hands folded & head bowed. And sure enough, that's her pose at the end of the clip. Usually one doesn't ask the deceased to uncover their own face, she can be a little demanding

the Sabbath > Carpenters > Folke Rabe version of Kuki is back up with a bunch of other things from Electric Mole as well

I've listened to the new album a couple of times, and... well, I feel very differently about it than you guys, Milton and Rocket, moreso with respect to any J-Pop comparisons, mainly because I'm not exactly sure if the term "J-Pop" means any particular sound anymore.

Once upon a time, sure, but today? It's like "indie rock" in that respect. You can get a sense, but there's so much breadth in J-Pop these days that everyone is going to imagine a different sound when the term comes up today... ALL of that is just to say that I don't think the new Tokyo Jihen is any more "J-Pop" than the previous two albums at all. It's lighter and has more space, sure. In fact, isn't condensation an element of "Classic J-Pop" anyway i.e. putting as much flavors of sugar into one nuclear chunk of pop fudge as possible? The new Jihen is a bit of the opposite in some ways, moreso than the previous two.

I'll listen to this album a few more times, but I'm not understanding what you guys were getting at above at all... not meant as a dis at all, just sayin'.

Well, I freely admit to not being that familiar with J-pop, so I don't think I'm prepared to martial any sort of arguments for my impression, but it's still my impression.

ok well good questions

when I say J-Pop I'm talking explictly about the 90's and maybe early 00's -- we need a new term for the last few years. I don't think it describes any one sound as much as their approach to the entire appropriation of any / many Western styles, but all redeployed / remade towards histrionically happy shiny ends. Puffy's first few records produced with Tamio Okuda are still the best example of this for me, a band with zero style loyalty, one song modelled on Pearl Jam, the next on ELO, the next Disco, the next Beatles 1964-65 complete, but all remade with... well... squeaky intent, exuberant joy

for instance even a band like Number Girl that's based entirely on emo indie comes out sounding more twee than wistful (although they did stick out simply by going for emo)

even the bands going for a very tough image, who favor 'punk' or tough sounds... there's something in the music that is inherently lighthearted and happy, it seems like a disjunct when it gets to the chorus. someone like Tomoe Shinohara might have ramped it up to such psychotic avant levels that you were left bleeding, but still... she's still J-Pop

from her first record, Shiina was always much weirder, even when she was doing Alanis / Nirvana tributes. the ringmod distortion on the vocals, the twisted lyrical content, the nods to the Japanese Noise underground, the pre-Shōwa pop influences, the Asian classical arrangements placed her outside of what I would have ever called J-Pop. She stuck out and then she took it too far for 75% of her mainstream fanbase with KZK, and since then it's been a long return through Jihen, literally announced as a 'Japanese Pop' band, a clean break from the drama & outright strangeness of her solo stuff

solo Ringo had many 'pure entertainment' moments (the 'Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You' cover with the kazoo break for instance), but with Jihen the albums really started filling up with these 'pure entertainment' numbers, the early video for their cover of Peggy Lee's "Dynamite" was really throwing down the gauntlet. the albums were still built around dark songs, though, everyone bought the first Jihen for 'Sounan' and she was still making crazyeyes during the 'Dynamite Out' live DVD. the crazyeyes are gone now, she's not writing any of the tunes, it's all (mostly) sunshine -- that intent, more than any sound or style or production method is what I'm connecting to trad 90's J-Pop. I don't think this record has much variety either, I think the title is a reference to its multiple authors and lack of a center.

that make any sense? I know you know your J-Pop a lot better than I do, most of it makes my eyes bleed

that was a longwinded way of saying 'it's more like J-pop simply because it's much sweeter than earlier Jihen'

still, even though my teeth are beginning to hurt, I still think Jihen is _the_ J-Pop band for people who would normally shy from J-Pop, the gateway drug

That totally answers my question actually, and now I'm getting what you're saying above. :D

Yeah, J-Pop hasn't completely disconnected itself from whence it came, although the artists are starting to appropriate Western stuff more interestingly and succinctly than ever before.. Kumi Koda's stuff is a perfect example of this. (No, I won't force you to go listen to Kumi Koda to understand this. lol.)