GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

Maybe a forty-something hot dude with an absent (and likely ever to be absent) wife who has a twenty-something free spirit almost literally throw herself at him would occasionally be so free-spirited as to go along. Maybe he'd still know how to keep his cool about it all and play along - isn't that part of his stereotype's charm, not being a twenty-something flibbertygibbet? Maybe it's no less weird than many a weird, brief romance that ppl actually have, and even more delicious to him since statistically he's less like to have them and impending mortality and a modicum of self-knowledge would inform him of this or at least threaten it. Maybe it's as much fun to share his worldly goods as to just have them to himself - notice how he knows he's having steak and gladly shares it, somewhat to Hannah's surprise. The episode may be a Hannah fantasy episode - there's nothing wrong with that, we've most of us had, consumated or not, at least one little magic episode like this in our lives - but its power resides in the fact that Dunham has laid out a level if doomed playing field and let us watch a one-off game, perhaps never to be replayed except in their heads and for who knows how long.

this is pretty interesting, from Roger Ebert's 1967 review of The Graduate:
"This is outrageous material, but it works in "The Graduate" because it is handled in a straightforward manner. Dustin Hoffman is so painfully awkward and ethical that we are forced to admit we would act pretty much as he does, even in his most extreme moments. Anne Bancroft, in a tricky role, is magnificently sexy, shrewish, and self-possessed enough to make the seduction convincing.... The Graduate" is a success and Benjamin's acute honesty and embarrassment are so accurately drawn that we hardly know whether to laugh or to look inside ourselves."

What job is Hannah going to lose next? I kind of feel that when these young ladies settle down, the show is dead.

yeah and most of these little magic episodes that aren't necessarily life changing don't make it to a tv/film audience, so i agree, it was awesome to see
xps

Wilson's character very pointedly says "I live nearby. In a HOUSE." Ray's effectively homeless at the moment. Older, handsome, obviously well-off guy comes in the coffee shop bitching about something insignificant that Ray doesn't even know is real, of course he gets riled.

I didn't mean to imply that the encounter is at all imaginary--more than a certain idea of fantasy seems at play in the episode--even if only the banality of making fantasy "real."

ah, yes, i def see what you mean by that

Ray certainly isn't written (acted) to be easily loved. I respect that. If funny is what I stay for, Ray is worth every moment.

Jack Nicholson landing Amanda Peet...

The whole episode felt fanciful and a little unnecessary and unreal, like a particularly indulgent set-up for a confession that could have been done more effectively with increased realism. That said, I enjoyed it a lot, and found the youthful "I want to feel everything so I can tell people" egotism amusing and recognisable.

i like this take: http://www.xojane.com/sex/i-look-a-lot-like-lena-dunham-and-ive-banged-super-hot-dudes

otm-est.

I checked out of this show after the cocaine episode, because of the falseness of the Hannah character. The way she asked that guy to score her drugs - I'm sorry, no one is that socially clueless. No one comes right out and says to a recovering junkie, "Can you get me some drugs," or whatever she said. Not even a 24 year old. She didn't start with "hey, I've got this weird question to ask you..." or "look, this is crazy, but my editor suggested I do this..." She was just completely and utterly tactless. If there exists a person like that, they don't deserve a TV show about them.

The rave reviews of this last episode convinced me to give the show another chance. Still - it's the faux naivete of Hannah that I can't stomach. When she abruptly kisses the guy... No one does that unless they mean to stir something up. The way she reacts, like "OMG, did I really do that?" as if she's not an agent in the whole scenario.. Complete bullshit.

Btw, the relationship in The Graduate is very different. For starters, it's the older person who is the aggressor. Also, the Dustin Hoffman character is apparently a virgin and thus more susceptible to Mrs. Robinson's come-on. Also, she's supposed to be around 40, which in the 1960s was considered desperately over-the-hill.

f there exists a person like that, they don't deserve a TV show about them.

it isn't like those annual ceremonies that recognise the value & contributions of members of the public who have acted bravely in difficult circumstances. it's valuable to depict people as people. if faux naivete is a common reflex amongst young people navigating relationships then it can be powerful to show it, examine it, looking at people's motives. this is a thing i want from art, & it is holy if we get to see it on as vapid a medium as television; that we should see people displaying human tendencies that aren't either positive or cartoonishly negative, lovable or hateable. the best LD stuff, like andrew bujalski's stuff, smartly portrays the weird dynamics of human relations, including the times people talk past one another, project images, actively manage what they're projecting, & betray things about themselves in doing so. it's why the guy saying he had to go to bed before work the next morning works, even if it's close to a cliched collar loosening moment - it accurately catches the distance between surface-level talk & behaviour, & actual interactions & feelings.

a really frequent criticism of the first season was people saying the characters were unsympathetic; i feel like you are not meant to be looking at this show for a half hour of appealing imaginary comforting role models so much as you are for catharsis, & recognition, & to give voice to a lot of unacknowledged-elsewhere experiences & motivations we have

otm

otm

― flopson, Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:04 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sounds like you're subbing 'role models' for relatability, and I kind of see those as the same thing.

I'm in my 40s, so I'm certainly not looking to this show for "comforting role models." I just don't relate to the "motivations" part, and I think that the characters are not even consistent to themselves, the way they're drawn. They seem to scheme quite a bit and then turn around and play the victim, as if woe is them.

yeah nobody in real life ever does that

I agree about the asking for drugs (faux) naïveté. Even in a comedy, behavior can be so absurd that you're taken out of the show.

There are enough moments like Jessa and the stockbroker and this episode to keep me coming back, though.

i do think quite a few things about the cocaine episode were totally unrealistic

why is ray homeless if he is the manager of coffee shop that was paying hannah enough to afford rent?

hannah had all that crazy blog money.

none of his friends would let Ray move in with him

my god did no one on ilx watch this ep to the end of the credits when hannahs alarm goes off and shes late for work, fucking people

only a piece of trash falls out of her pants...

Has the show ever used music like that?

I said the same thing; I thought this was Michael Penn's best stuff. Totally beautiful and melancholic.

idk in my world of young ppl it totally slots in that somebody could discover some stranger is a recovering junkie and think 'wow I bet that dude could score me some drugs'

probably the message is 'yes, young people these days are that self-absorbed and tone deaf. you were like this too probably when you were 20, you have just forgotten about it.'

I think the drug-scoring scene was a fair use of absurdity to illustrate Hannah's solipsism. It was kind of Curb-esque.

Second time watching this episode, still dug it, but Hannah's confession at the end felt a bit pat and "Oscar scene"

and of course she was trying to stir shit up by kissing him in the kitchen. she just had no idea which way it might go, but knew it'd go somewhere, anywhere, anyway, "advancing the plot" of her life. that's part of her whole deal.

Exactly; she throws shit out there to see what will happen. I'd be interested to see a scenario where a deliberately provocative act doesn't come off well. I'll also be very interested in whether we ever see mr handsome grown up dr with a brownstone again.

Jessa will shag/eat/kill him.

also: punch

shag/eat/kill

worst sandra bullock sequel.

I'll also be very interested in whether we ever see mr handsome grown up dr with a brownstone again.

obviously not

http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/lena-dunham-girls-fatshaming-and-an-honest-male-perspective.php?fb_action_ids=10151323709281589&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=.URyKiP9G9b0.like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151323709281589%22%3A375712609193598%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151323709281589%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%7B%2210151323709281589%22%3A%22.URyKiP9G9b0.like%22%7D

fb_action_ids=10151323709281589&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=.URyKiP9G9b0.like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151323709281589%22%3A375712609193598%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151323709281589%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%7B%2210151323709281589%22%3A%22.URyKiP9G9b0.like%22%7D

wth

dude is missing all kinds of points and also possibly throwing shade at Christina Hendricks who was not Hollywood's idea of anything before Mad Men

Exactly; she throws shit out there to see what will happen. I'd be interested to see a scenario where a deliberately provocative act doesn't come off well.

This happened in the first season where she jokingly accused the guy who was interviewing her for a job of being a date rapist at school. That's just off the top of my head.

I thought this last episode was AMAZING btw. Loved every moment.

My article, "I Am Super-Hot Guy Who Has Slept With Women Who Look Like Lena Dunham", was sadly rejected by xoJane.

hehe http://lamegenerator.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/i-look-a-lot-like-patrick-wilson-and-ive-banged-lots-of-chicks-who-look-like-lena-dunham/

i sort of feel like lots of discussion of why would he with hannah sort of overlooks the obvious -- she's in her early 20s, she's in his house, she kissed him, and he's going through a divorce and feeling really conflicted.

one interesting way to read this episode is as the other side of a manic-pixie-dream-girl type thing.

I feel like I say this after every episode but so much of this show is so real to me/hits so close to home/reflects my own experiences with life in ways I have never seen in media before (like, I basically did this episode in Raleigh, N.C. two years ago). When ppl are all "oh man this show is SOOO UNREALISTIC and absurd" or talk abt how it's a crazy, farce-ish comedy thing like some hipster update of an 80's Bette Midler film it basically comes off as them boasting abt how out of touch they are.

lol, i do think of you when i watch this show Steve

i sort of feel like lots of discussion of why would he with hannah sort of overlooks the obvious -- she's in her early 20s, she's in his house, she kissed him, and he's going through a divorce and feeling really conflicted.

OTM

Also, and largely building on all of the above, I saw part of his motivation as willing himself to just go along with something that normally would seem too out-there, largely because Hannah was driving things so all he had to do was agree.

Reminded me of the Taylor Swift lyric in "Treacherous": "I can't decide if it's a choice / getting swept away / I hear the sound of my own voice / asking you to stay" - funnily enough this is literally applicable here, Hannah asking dude to beg her to stay allowed him to do something that his persona would never countenance otherwise.

I think a lot of weird romantic / amorous encounters can be like this, it's almost as if you're going along with things just to be agreeable, but at the same time it's more than that, you're being agreeable because it allows you to experience something without taking the responsibility for having planned or directed it.