Grimes/Claire Boucher thread

That list isn't really that bad at all.

Now if she was repping for fellow Canadian Shawn Desman, then I would be questioning her sanity.

Hey now Shawn has done a lot of good things for people in this country

if grimes wishes to enjoy herself online why shouldn't she? people shouldn't fucking harass her.

People shouldn't but they will. People harass on the internet, it is a fact. You can't stop it. Add to that the fact that people harass those that are in the public sphere to a far greater extent. Really the only thing to do is ignore it. Do you stop making music when you read a bad review of something you've done? No. You got to have faith in your own shit.

Hm I don't really have enough investment in this to go out on a limb to fully elucidate why I disagree with what you just posted, Adam, but the basic gist of my disagreement is that you're asking Grimes-the-person to exist in an emotional vacuum, to isolate herself from the internet-as-dialogue. I can't really put words in her mouth or the mouth of her conspirators, but my takeaway from her and her crew has been that they deliberately seek to maintain a position of mutual respect and dialogue between audience, critical complex and self. I loved, for example, that she smilingly and apologetically admitted to making Visions in Garageband. Although the aesthetic appeal of artists-who-don't-give-a-fuck is undeniable, her sensitivity to criticism and willingness to respond reads to me as self-respect.

She should chat with Amanda Palmer. There's a whole thread on ILX designed just to make fun of her and her dialogue with audience.

I think you can respect yourself and your audience and still realize that trolls exist and they aren't your audience.

my whole introduction to Grimes at some point in the past year was as some DIVISIVE ARTIST who some people apparently made a big deal of saying was overrated or untalented or whatever. i have very little firsthand exposure to that invective, and didn't feel very strongly either way about the couple most popular singles of hers that i've heard. but i guess she's getting a lot of aggression from somewhere, and i imagine whatever the pushback was on something as harmless as a defense of "Gangnam Style" must've just been the straw that broke the camel's back. seems kinda silly to have a site, with the same name you release records under, and then take umbrage when sites that praise your music quote it, but maybe she didn't get a lot of bile for that post until Pitchfork ran their story? i dunno, it's still rough out there for people straddling the indie/pop divide i guess.

actually, i suspect she is NOT getting "a lot of aggression". rather, that she has very thin skin.

That she writes and records all these songs herself and plays shows by herself is some cool stuff btw,

yeah i dunno! maybe she saw 2 derisive tweets and got upset, maybe a shitload of people sent her nasty personal emails, i really have no idea.

ppl are very nasty on the internet particularly towards women so i would give her the benefit of the doubt.

90% of the comments i saw on the gawker story about this were about her appearance and why gawker couldn't find a nicer picture of her to run with the post

I think it was with the sudden transformation of "a tumblr post" into "a Pitchfork headline", not necessarily trolls, who I feel she deals with gracefully.

Oh please don't let's mention AP in this thread I can't deal with that

I agree w Sean it's obvious she has a thin skin but shit who doesn't

That was an xp

It's an interesting thing with Grimes bc I'm not a #1 fan of the album "Visions" (this is hardly relevant and I love the singles) but I feel more compelled to defend her than many other artists and I'm not sure why, I don't think it's "Canadian" or "female" or "independent". Actually, maybe it is the independent part. And I love the live show. And the "Oblivion" video. Hm I dunno, I'm just extra "haters step off" about her. Maybe I just think she's cute, ew

Grimes isn't a part of ILX, just bcz she voices some opinions on music doesnt mean ppl are entitled to give her tons of shit

http://deadgirlfriends.tumblr.com/post/39420019737/how-do-you-feel-about-trolls

― markers, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 8:19 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^she should've just re-posted this tbh

my 8yo daughter is super into the grimes LP and as far as independence goes yeah I think she's a pretty good role model

also temperamental artist deletes tumblr in temperamental fit of pique should be filed under things that could be an onion article, I don't get what the big deal is

I don't know that she's done anything that indicates she's being thin-skinned? She had a space where she could ruminate on ideas and post stuff she likes and interact with others and the context changed so she changed how she uses it.

This isn't like beyonce pulling beyonce.com off the internet or anything.

@ roz yeah that's pretty much the best post ever

I don't tumbl so I don't know if it's a thing, but is a "p.s. pls don't reblog this" message a thing that people do?

Hm I don't really have enough investment in this to go out on a limb to fully elucidate why I disagree with what you just posted, Adam, but the basic gist of my disagreement is that you're asking Grimes-the-person to exist in an emotional vacuum, to isolate herself from the internet-as-dialogue. I can't really put words in her mouth or the mouth of her conspirators, but my takeaway from her and her crew has been that they deliberately seek to maintain a position of mutual respect and dialogue between audience, critical complex and self. I loved, for example, that she smilingly and apologetically admitted to making Visions in Garageband. Although the aesthetic appeal of artists-who-don't-give-a-fuck is undeniable, her sensitivity to criticism and willingness to respond reads to me as self-respect.

― dry rub come save beef (flamboyant goon tie included), Thursday, 7 February 2013 17:50 (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is a banging post

I get lex's point that bullies shouldn't get a free pass but idk when somebody invents the delete troll horde button for the internet we'll let him push it first

I am basically super-uncomfortable whenever people get victim-blamey. And yes focusing on HER "thin skin" or saying SHE should modify her behaviour is victim-blaming. Also, dicks behave atrociously to even the most minor public figure and to musicians in every genre space; it's not about her indie/pop straddling.

Basically Grimes is not actually the problem here. I don't know whether internet dickishness can be stopped but at the very least if you're going to make even the tiniest effort to express an opinion on this matter, that's who you should be focusing on

I mean I know merely posting "people shouldn't be dicks" will not make it so, but...posting "people should just get a thicker skin" is not gonna make that so either. And only one of those things is actually shitty behaviour

also temperamental artist deletes tumblr in temperamental fit of pique should be filed under things that could be an onion article, I don't get what the big deal is

ya seriously, i don't think it shows her being an oversensitive flower or anything. and I read her blog sometimes, get the sense that she and elite gymnastics' james get a lot of trolls hassling them all the time and they usually deal with it pretty well.

otoh some days, the internet is just too much and you just gotta delete yr blog/stop posting on ilx.

never

also I agree with lex, victim blamers need die in a fire after being shot at and then exterminated

fwiw, she's clarified that it was really about Pitchfork publishing her comments:

hey it’s claire

So I’m pretty new to this whole thing and I apologize if I behaved rashly or offended anyone.

Despite the fact that I can be outspoken, I’m a very private person.

I started that tumblr specifically to have a ‘non-official’ platform to voice my opinions. Obviously this was naive of me and i should have known how it would turn out. but i guess i just grew up on the internet and the internet is where i do things. its been intense to become a part of the content on the internet rather than just a passive observer.

I definitely meant what I said concerning beyonce, psy etc. and I’ve put that post back up (below) because I dont want my words to be taken out of context.

but i couldn’t handle my personal website becoming a content farm. My passive thoughts are not official statements.

i just need to have a normal life right now. I’m trying to write my record and I’ve never tried to make art with so many people watching. I love writing, but this tumblr is making things hard concerning my record.

I’ll start writing here again once I finished. I also just need to fully process having a ‘public life’. I haven’t parsed all this stuff yet and it’s been a real shock to the system.

again, I apologize if I upset anyone or reacted immaturely. I’m simultaneously honoured that something I say could get so much attention. I’m just not quite used to it yet. <3

x

c

also I agree with lex, victim blamers need die in a fire after being shot at and then exterminated

― dry rub come save beef (flamboyant goon tie included), Thursday, February 7, 2013 1:43 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

then you'd blame them for bringing the fire on themselves, and then it would be your turn

Haha her hostility to content farming-as-journalism is another pt in her favour

My estimation of Grimes just hot up another 400% I think. This whole thing, as well as bringing up the rockism debate again, is interesting because of the idea of people 'watching' the creative process. With my own fledgling band we are toying with this idea - showing people the inner workings of our songs, often before they're recorded. Beatles Anthology before Love Me Do, of you will. While musicians have always had to cope with intrusion on their private lives, it's now difficult for even the more retiring artists who still want a 'normal' net presence to operate properly. If you use the net for creative inspiration, how do you stop it coming round to bite you in the arse?

Sorry about typos - iPhone shite

Grimes isn't a part of ILX

the word “rockism” is often used as critical shorthand for

Pretty close!

that was a good follow-up post she wrote.

my comment re "thin skinned" is from encounters with Claire irl!

it can be neutral but that phrase is generally seen as a negative and not very complimentary, though

she's had some rough shit in her life iirc + recent rape threats from trolls

but she's probably thin-skinned

I'd just like to add that EG James is one of my favourite musicians online

I just assumer Claire is sensitive/thin-skinned/whatever adjective you want to use for "has feelings", seeing as she's gone from playing to two people at SXSW to being the face of Versace in two years, it'd be a waste of meteoric success if she were aloof

I like how she's handling this, tbh, and deleting her tumblr page seems like an awesome great first step.

Re: blaming the victim, I totally get it. But I hesitate to call her a victim of anything serious (or unique, alas) enough to warrant invoking that word. It reminds me of the hit movie "Twister" - remember that one? - where people with cameras chase tornados, and then get stuck in tornados. Or "Jaws IV: The Revenge," where Mrs. Brody sees the shark, takes a boat out into the open sea to follow it, and then is relentlessly attacked by the shark. The internet is full of twisters and sharks and dicks and trolls. They seem to be attracted to public or semi-public figures like ants (those assholes!) to picnics. I should say that in no way does she seem thin skinned in this affair at all. She's just figuring out how to deal with it. But to claim a public website or whatever is somehow such an essential component of her music making abilities or creativity is to undersell/undervalue those very things. It may be a parallel creative component or outlet or whatever, but she does not need it, so good for her for recognizing that a break is in order.

Still find it hilarious that anyone (and in this case I guess I mean the people saying mean things about her?) would be so reactionary about Grimes liking Psy or Beyonce or Mariah Carey.

I mean I know merely posting "people shouldn't be dicks" will not make it so, but...posting "people should just get a thicker skin" is not gonna make that so either. And only one of those things is actually shitty behaviour

― lex pretend, Thursday, February 7, 2013 1:38 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^^

lol @ josh being all, i'm not gonna blame the victim *blames victim*

also, i don't know the exact nature of what people have been saying to grimes this week, but if it's even 1/100th of what any woman with a moderate public profile receives as a matter of course NO ONE should be throwing around an adjective like "thin-skinned"

"she's not much of a victim of anything, she's like those people who were killed in tornadoes! not victims of anything, those guys"

also, i don't know the exact nature of what people have been saying to grimes this week, but if it's even 1/100th of what any woman with a moderate public profile receives as a matter of course NO ONE should be throwing around an adjective like "thin-skinned"

― lex pretend, Thursday, February 7, 2013 2:50 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^ that's what im saying

josh how grimes handles this is literally irrelevant, she can handle it exactly as she pleases and how she feels would be best for her

yeah see i suspect grimes to get to the point she is at, hugely acclaimed artist, doing it by herself, dealing with people who clearly didn't believe she could do it along the way...i suspect toughness is not her problem. but little things do build up over time and people get pissed and sometimes, amazingly, delete their blogs.

even if she's very easily offended or prone to overreacting in real life, I see absolutely no evidence of that here and I honestly wish I was nearly as contemplative in my reactions and thoughts. and I don't even have anyone hounding me or caring what I think.

not that this isn't part of real life!

really wish I hadn't actually seen her list

josh how grimes handles this is literally irrelevant, she can handle it exactly as she pleases and how she feels would be best for her

No, I insist she take my advice. Do you have a way I can contact her? I know what's best for her.

Seriously, I think this whole thing transcends blame the victim. I feel like we're all victimized by this stuff all the time, in a sense. If someone told me when I was little that one of my favorite artists would not only have a portal that provided a direct link but would actively encourage free (in every sense) communication, I would not have believed you. If someone then said such a thing would be ruined by assholes writing in hateful and hurtful shit just because it's easy and anonymous, young me would have asked why the fuck anyone would do that? It makes me sad. Sort of recalls the ground zero of this sort of thing, of Bob Dylan trying to live a normal public life, and that getting fucked up by psycho fans going through his mail, dropping in on him at home, etc.