2.0 garbage version two point poll 2.0

Lex otm. xp

it's an overstatement to say she's anonymous on the first but the general persona is basically more generic (as "that whole glam/goth/grump thing" proves)

totally reject the proposition that the first album is any less a work of machine-tooled precision than the second, it's just more lurid in the latter as meretricious vajazzling meets shrill faux-bubblegum naff posturings

admiring 'meretricious vajazzling'

alfred otm about "when i grow up" though

You can spent time and money on a machine only to watch it sputter and wheeze every couple miles.

tune in next week for more ♪♫ buuuullshit epigraaaams ♫♪

the first album might have its weaker moments but none are remotely egregious, where does it "sputter and wheeze"

ever since making a somewhat contorted analogy between s/t and britney's blackout i have 'as heaven is wide' and 'heaven on earth' twinned in a swooping gliding two-part embrace

"when i grow up" has the "chaos rules when we're apart" (lol) part where there's two little stabs of beat which are the best part and which never recur, forcing you to play the song again. and the "sha-la-la" climax that ends with the sound of a digital zipper closing up the track. there's so many noises and sonic jokes on this album; it's aggressive and unpredictable and really really generous, which is part of why manson's overwhelming high-maintenance posturing works so much better: when it's thin or trite or protesting too much (polite of everyone to mention "on a cruise to freak you out" but not the ridiculous line right before it) it's carried by the noise, which sounds like the girl she is trying to be.

I can only think of a couple tracks from beautifulgarbage that use the noises to such complimentary and complementary effect.

Pitch-shifted vox on I Think I'm Paranoid...

'i think i'm paranoid' is one of those songs where it's literally impossible for me to listen to with fresh ears

"As Heaven Is Wide" is awesome iirc.

damn.
all these hidden sounds of humour.
going to have to listen a lot more closely from hereon.
all i hear is a mighty fine alt.rock album with some cracking tunes that rarely fail to deliver the payback ..

it's an overstatement to say she's anonymous on the first but the general persona is basically more generic (as "that whole glam/goth/grump thing" proves)

totally reject the proposition that the first album is any less a work of machine-tooled precision than the second, it's just more lurid in the latter as meretricious vajazzling meets shrill faux-bubblegum naff posturings

― r|t|c, Thursday, 7 February 2013 3:29 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post

to build on this excellent post (although i obv like the second album a lot more than ^^^) Shirley's persona on the first album is part of its machine-tooled precision: the tape loop noises and the non-specific angst both express the same impulse of wanting to pinpoint (and build a monument to) that which was modern in "alt" (I'd use "grunge" but its a bit too narrow) -to decouple it from its humanist tendencies.

Clearly the idea behind Version 2.0 was to place a bet each way: to push this idea further arrangements-wise while rehumanising the singer and the songs, using bubblegum signifiers as a way of shortcircuiting the two directions (bubblegum being a classic example of where the human and the inhuman no longer feel as though they are in opposition - this is also part of why the album reminds me of late 90s / early 00s Max Martin productions).

push it

To develop Tim's idea further: Max Martin's machine-tooled precise bubblegum eclipsed Garbage at their peak. If N'Sync could do cartoon goth in 2000-2001, a third Garbage album suddenly looks dated indeed

Jesus

no -- Justin.

yeah tim's first graf is more or less exactly why i feel such a fierce sentiment to the s/t (the second is pretty okay in truth but if i must contend with negative comparisons then fangs will be bared), it was p much the formative catalyst for my first ever critical thinking wrt "scenes", namely in the sense of hmm wait why is this being fobbed off by cool dudes when it does the same thing as grunge but with awesome production stuff happening?

take for instance 'as heaven is wide' where the sudden introduction of that skittering chattering rhythm under the rising "if, flesh, could, crawl, my" prechorus makes it feel as if you're audio witness to an actual bodyhorror transformation

or the disembodied (like actually bouncing around your headphones disorientating), almost-mocking "wwwwishhhh" backing vox behind the chorus that only reveals its bitterly ironic relevance right at the very end with "i wish i could fly". studio tricks!

fwiw i think if the two were equal in quality i would probably privilege v2 more now (but obv that's all manner of timeless hypotheticals)

To develop Tim's idea further: Max Martin's machine-tooled precise bubblegum eclipsed Garbage at their peak. If N'Sync could do cartoon goth in 2000-2001, a third Garbage album suddenly looks dated indeed

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 10:55 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Garbage had the last laugh though.

Garbage : 90s alt-rock :: P!nk's first album : late 90s R&B

Shirley's persona post the debut album then got the ball rolling on the entire post-debut P!nk - Katy Perry - Jessie J continuum.

doing it like a dude since 95

Shirley's persona post the debut album then got the ball rolling on the entire post-debut P!nk - Katy Perry - Jessie J continuum.

oh totally.

Katy Perry's Joan-Jett-as-Celine-Dion faux gentility is really strange.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

It's about right.

TBH, sort of feel like voting for "Special" or "I Think I'm Paranoid" means you don't actually get this album.

well, "Special" was a shrewd third single release in the U.S. for that reason.

lol'd at the 80+ posts itt discussing #garbagedeepalbumcuts and then the top two being so obvious

"Special" is a great song don't get me wrong but it feels odd to see those as the 1-2 hit.

funny you said "don't get me wrong"

I'll stand by that statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Bj8wrXslk

well, "Special" was a shrewd third single release in the U.S. for that reason.

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, February 7, 2013 6:21 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The shrewd third single they flogged for about six months* in hopes of a big crossover that didn't quite arrive, and in some senses the beginning of the end for them.

*Somewhere in storage I have a vhs tape with their TWO seperate Tonight Show appearances to promote the single (one late '98, the other 1st quarter '99)

It's interesting to think about Garbage being too late for grunge but too early for the kind of misfit-pop they inadvertently blueprinted on the second and (particularly) third albums.

circa 2001 all of the lesbians I knew who didn't reject pop music en masse were obsessed with "Cherry Lips" - this is the same crowd who later became absolutely obsessed with Pink (though only with or following I'm Not Dead, I think) - however it seems like it was too late for Garbage to really cash in on that and/or they'd already reverted to "real" rock by that point.

Huh these are extremely bizarre results to me - phone skipped to the posts about two obvious winners, I was like yeah duh Push It and Dumb, then scrolled to the top and my jaw dropped

Relistening to the debut now: rtc otm about both the blackout connexion (esp in Queer, but how had I never noticed that Shirley shares a bit of Britney's weird frog machine thing?) and the drums on the incredible As Heaven Is Wide

A Stroke Of Luck is gorgeous too

I'm listening to the debut right now as well!

But only up to "Stupid Girl" so I'm not able to offer any sharp re-evaluative thoughts on underrated album tracks yet.

This was actually one of the first albums I bought back in 1995, and at the time the drum loops and the like seemed excellent but not especially remarkable, in some ways almost like a more satisfyingly fleshed out and grunty version of the production on Jagged Little Pill.

My Lover's Box >>>

Really I'm mostly reminded how powerful those anguished, self-loathing lyrics delivered as if they were threats and as if the singer was the most powerful being in the world were

Production-wise I don't think I made the JLP connection then or now: it's like a heavier Sneaker Pimps (and the template Tori took REALLY out there on Venus/Choirgirl) (and PJ on Desire?), and was like my token rock-because-it-sounds-like-trip-hop album

It's also weird how the Britney thing is inescapable when listening to the debut but NOT Version 2.0

Oh sorry I meant to say: I think that's what i thought at the time but not now. But yeah it also fit in with Portishead and Bjork and etc. that I was listening to, to some extent at least (the other stuff you mentioned obv coming afterwards).

Re Britney, that's the ennervated quality, yeah?

"A Stroke of Luck" SO GOOD.

There's a kind of bleary quality to the production which is very trip hop (and which actually not many major label people had picked up on circa 1995 - but it was everywhere by the following year) - whereas the second album is too pristine to give that vibe.

(also Depeche Mode's Songs of Faith & Devotion - I'd expect that was a big reference point for Butch going into this?)

"Stupid Girl" really stood out as the most perfectly realised of the singles on this listen.

It sure is! "Queer" has worn the worst imo.

Possibly. It was my favourite at the time.

nah Queer totally held up this morning, it's def the one Britney should cover

I was never a huge fan of Stupid Girl and I think Only Happy When It Rains should probably be relegated to karaoke fun status

Milk is still incredible

og or tricky mix