the totally insane true story behind the 1970s film and book Sybil

There's also a textbook anthology titled The Construction of Deviance or something similar.

I was just watching Capturing the Friedmans, and was reminded of another similar documentary, and I thought this thread might be the best place to ask about it... Back in the 90s I saw a TV documentary about a case where the staff of an American day care center were accused of Satanic Ritual Abuse. I think the case in question might've been the MacMartin preschool trial, because I clearly remember the documentary referencing the children's claims that the staff members were flying in air like witches, and other ludicrous things like that. I also remember courtroom drawings were used to illustrate the doc. Now, there was a TV movie made about the case, but I can't find any info on the documentary. Does anyone remember seeing this?

The PBS series Frontline did a 2-hour report on a different case (in Edenton, North Carolina)called "Innocence Lost" in 1991. Maybe that was what you saw?

They show Frontline in Finland?! I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about either. When I have time I can look at the index of the Debbie Nathan SRA book to see if there's anything in there about it?

The PBS series Frontline did a 2-hour report on a different case (in Edenton, North Carolina)called "Innocence Lost" in 1991. Maybe that was what you saw?

Could be, though the Wikipedia page for that case doesn't mention children saying that the daycare workers were witches who would fly around, and that's a detail I clearly remember from the documentary.

One thing I've always wondered about these SRA cases is, were all these testimonials that various supernatural and other ludicrous things (like bears and lions being sacrificed to Satan) taken seriously as a part of the prosecutors' claims, or did they try to sweep them under the rug and focus on the more realistic-sounding claims? Because in here, if such outrageous claims were made in court, they would certainly weaken the case significantly... But maybe it's different in the USA, since it's a more religious country?

"that various supernatural and other ludicrous things had happened"

If I understand correctly, a lot of it rested on one simple (untrue) fact: that children don't lie unless it's to cover up something bad they did. Also, the SRA stalwarts had legitimized their interrogation/interviewing methods (which were very leading) and diagnoses within the APA community, so people didn't question them on their testimony.

Add to that the fact that little kids aren't usually asked to testify in the courtroom when horrifying things have allegedly happened to them, so the interviewers testified on their behalf. Basically, the interviewers asked leading questions, the kids gave the answers they thought they were "supposed to" give, and that testimony was taken carte blanche to court and used to convict people of doing ludicrous things.

I have no idea how the claims got so ridiculous, but that's all part of the story I guess.

I guess if you encourage kids to make up stuff about abuse, the downside to it is that they'll make up stuff you weren't asking for. But I'm still curious about how the more outlandish claims were handled in court... Were they left out of the testimonials? Did the interviewers/prosecutors try to downplay them? Or were they used as "proof" that genuine dark forces were involved in these rituals?

I wish I could find the documentary I mentioned above, because IIRC this issue was addressed in it.

They were included afaik, I think your answer is "C", unfortunately. There were people who decried the allegations as ridiculous, but there was also a lot of social/cultural pressure to not ally oneself with Satanic child abusers.

alleged Satanic child abusers, that is.

I was reading Sybil Exposed (it's a great book, btw! thanks for recommending it, LL), and since I'd recently watched The Mothman Prophecies, another movie based on a book that was based on a "true" story, I noticed a funny little connection. According to Sybil Exposed, Shirley Mason moved to Point Pleasant, West Virginia, in the autumn of 1965, and apparently lived there for several years. Now, Point Pleasant is small town with only a few thousand inhabitants, and it's biggest claim to fame is the Mothman, a supposed supernatural creature that was reported to have been seen in the area in 1966 and 1967. (Point Pleasant is also known for a bridge collapse that killed 46 people. The collapse took place in 1967, and both the book and the movie link the incident to the Mothman).

Obviously the fact that Mason moved to Point Pleasant only a year before the first Mothman sightings is a total coincidence, but I can only imagine what sort connections some properly paranoid conspiracy theorist could draw between the two cases...

Whoa, that IS weird.

I love it.

You know what else I love? Point Pleasant has a statute of the Mothman right there in town:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Mothman_statue_2005.jpg

Mothman is one of the least thetical, most WTF paranormal thingies ever. I almost have to believe in it because it is just sooo disorganized and jumbled and devoid of any streamlined point at all. Also I will never stop saying the name 'Indrid Cold' to myself. Also I am v v happy there is a Sybil/Mothman connection! :D

Is there a thread on local monsters (Mothman, Jersey Devil, Chessie)? I think I want to start one if their isn't. I love that crap.

Don't forget the Hodag of Rhinelander, WI.

please start that thread if one doesn't exist, carl. I would be v interested!!

Chessie? Like Nessie, but it plays chess?

the Nessie of Chesapeake Bay iirc

there is also one in Lake Champlain, Champie

Is there a thread on local monsters (Mothman, Jersey Devil, Chessie)? I think I want to start one if their isn't. I love that crap.

Couple of threads that are relevant...

Charles Fort (and the Strange Things That Fell From The Sky)
Does the Loch Ness Monster really exist?
Unexplained Mysteries and Phenomena - S/D
Do You Believe in the Orang Pendek?

I would like to think Paul Bunyan counts as a local monster

Thanks, Elvis Telecom! Those are good, but not quite right. I will start a Local Monsters/Your Favorite Cryptid thread after dinner.

And yes, Chessie is the Chesapeake Bay's own giant water monster.

Did you start a local monsters thread? Link?

WHOOPS NO I FORGOT

*bangs desk* DAMMIT CARL

in cult-related news, i would like to recommend the movie "the sound of my voice" to anyone who enjoys cult movies. the plot is pretty slight, and not without holes/problems, but brit marling's portrayal of a future cult leader is super memorable and she kinda reminded me of daryl hannah if splash was about a mermaid cult instead of a romance or whatever the f it was.

was splash a comedy? rom com? i have no idea.

I did not consider this Darryl Hannah angle but I approve

did you see it? she was really good! i liked her other movie aaaaalright but she was way better as an actress in this one

also somehow with absolutely no intervention from me hattie dorsett has made it onto a list of great villains

I did! I thought it was pretty enjoyable, and I'm glad I actually caught it in the theater.

Have you seen Beyond the Black Rainbow, LL? It's very plot-lite in that it's mostly visual and works through a lot of 70s/80s sci-fi and horror tropes but it features an imprisoned girl and esoteric cultish types so I feel it's vaguely thread-relevant.

gonna read everything on Dan's list! In fact, he has even made me want to reread Hyperion which is no small feat considering how much I remember hating it. (tbf to Simmons, I read it while I was recovering from massive abdominal surgery at age 21 so he didn't rly get a fair hearing...)

i haven't seen BTBR yet -- i know i should. sometimes plot-lite works for me and other times it doesn't. i don't like movies that are basically tumblr photo shoots that go on for 2 hours, but this one sounds a little different?

i have also never read hyperion or even tried! +1 to you for even trying.

i was a book devourer then, like 20x faster than I am today

movies that are basically tumblr photo shoots that go on for 2 hours

thread needed!

I read Hyperion in a college science fiction class! I think that there's a second book that finishes a lot of the plot arcs, and then several other books I've been told are completely inessential.

That is a good list. I've never read Hyperion but I like Dan Simmons's other stuff.

Confession: I never finished Drood.

Me, neither. I got it out of the library and two weeks wasn't enough time to get through that monster. I'm going to get it on Kindle one of these days.

I never finished it on the Kindle! I just wasn't really into it at the time. Like many things, I think I appreciated the description of it more than the book (album/movie/experience/whatever) itself.

I never finished it either. Later I found it at a library sale for 50 cents.

hello ilx scandal enthusiasts -- is there a current discussion of the amanda barry/cleveland/hostage situation going down anywhere on ilx? i am hungry for news and i only have like 1 hr of computer time per day (not because i'm being held hostage in a boarded up rust belt house, thank goodness) i heard about it on the radio on my way into work and now i want updates.

LL, follow these folks on Twitter for the best updates I've seen:

https://twitter.com/ScottTaylor19
https://twitter.com/WEWS

Two years ago we had Antony Sowell, now we have a women-held-prisoner story, Cleveland really stepping it up on the crazy people front.

Jesus the updates on Scott Taylor's twitter from 2h ago to present...

thx! i heard about it on the radio on my way to work and thought that Onil was O'Neil (lol NEOH) and that Berry was Barry and the whole thing seemed really confusing

i feel kinda gross for being so interested but it's not exactly out of character, plus cleveland!

ok now that i've read scott taylor's updates whoa omg it's way more awful than i thought
so glad they got out
bad news for castros and bus drivers

the son of one the kidnappers wrote an article about Gina for the Plain Dealer, back in 2004 when she went missing

"Hey bro," Ramsey tells the 911 operator. "Check this out. I just came from McDonald's right? So I'm on my porch eating my little food, right? This broad is trying to break out the f-----g house next door to me, so there's a bunch of people on the street right now and s--t. So we're like, 'What's wrong, what's the problem?' She's like, 'This m--------r done kidnapped me and my daughter... She said her name is Linda Berry or some s--t. I don't know who the f--k that is, I just moved over here bro. You know what I mean?"

He then answers the 911 operator's questions about the woman, what she looks like, and what she's wearing.

Ramsey tells the operator an address which he says corresponds to Berry's location, not Ramsey's home address. "I'm smarter than that bro. I'm telling you were the crime was, not my house," he says.

"Are the people that she said did this, are they still in the house?" the 911 operator asks.

"I don't have a f-----g clue, bro. Like I said, I just came from McDonald's."

The operator then asks him to check whether Berry needs an ambulance.

"She needs everything. She's in a panic, bro. She's been kidnapped, so, you know, put yourself in her shoes."

"We'll send the police out," the operator responds.