Is Eric Clapton a racist?

xpost - Just using that as an example, taken from, err, real life accounts. heh heh heh

I'd also say I'm too busy defending late era Blck Sabbath on ILM to criticize the welfare system too. It ain't all about me, Noodle.

"What if you, like, really DO have black friends?"

you can still go on stage drunk and rant about evil immigrants.

clapton was there in covent garden at some of the early uk hip hop jams too. he helped lay out the lino.

My question though is, isn't it entirely possible to be politically to the right of Che Guevara and still, like, treat everyone equally and with respect? I'm just sayin.'

depends how theyre being equally treated.

What people forget is that Clapton wants all white British people to be sent back to Germany.

wait so titchy is being serious

Clapton actually wanted to give London an NBA franchise as well.

What if you, like, really DO have black friends? What if you work in a soul fod restaraunt, intern at a hip hop label, and still - GASP! - criticize the welfare system?

What about the welfare system? Are you implying that there a very certain group of people messing it up?

the only serious points i made in this thread were at 20.04 and semi-seriously, at 19.58.

wheres that nude spock paul revere gif

Pleasant Plains, I will not be party to a witchhunt, sorry bud. I wasn't 'implying' anything and was in fact basing this example on people I have known.

Why would dissing on welfare automatically make you a racist?

also, fuck Eric Clapton in his beady little eyes

I don't think it does automatically make you a racist, that's sorta my point. Can't Clapton hold political views his 'black friends' might disagree with? Something tells me these black friends would have less of a problem with his stupid ideas than knee jerk liberal types, no?

woah @ image of dan perry fucking eric clapton's eyes

And yes, fuck Clapton forever, dude sucks

anyone saying that he had a problem with west indian immigrants in the uk at the time is just wrong.

CLAPTON HIMSELF was the one who said he had a problem with West Indian immigrants in the UK.

Well, given that they're his friends, I would assume they're more tolerant of him than people who don't know him. I think that's true of everyone, though; you tend to be nicer to people you know.

My point was that bringing up criticism of the welfare system as a strawman example of What Racists Do seems really odd, particularly since it has nothing to do with the thread or the counter-example you were constructing.

That's worded poorly, I don't mean you were saying racists hate welfare, I meant you were saying that people assume that people who hate welfare are racists, and there's a gigantic implicit assumption in there that needs to happen in order for that to make sense.

huh welfare hating has been coded racism since st least reagan - obv not across the board - but still a fine example

I can't tell which responses are serious, but would kinda like to note that despite the names and the western habit of considering all non-white people west of Thailand to be the same color, India and the West Indies are really, really far away from each other.

yes but their names are v similar dont u see

Enoch Powell and Clapton both referred specifically to "black" immigrants, Powell at least was educated enough to know exactly what he meant, but it's hard to read Clapton as referring to anybody other than West Indian immigrants either.

xpost OK, well, I can't think of a better example without making a ridiculous leap, like, say you're Ziggy Marley's touring keyboard player and you spend the whole tour reading David Duke's book or something.

My only point is that it's totally possible to 'have black friends' and not necessarily do / say / believe things that are constantly advancing the causes of black people.

This is what happens whe you try to write serious, clear posts on ILM while listening to Half Japenmese really, really loud

u didnt tell us u were half japanese - this changes everything

Surely there's a difference between "to the right of Che Guevara" and "behind Enoch Powell"??

xposts

I'm not saying the guy shouldn't take some hits for these comments, but you guys are putting a little too much in when you take a musician's ideas as anything approaching cogent, reasoned thought on something as difficult as British immigration policy.

OTM

My only point is that it's totally possible to 'have black friends' and not necessarily do / say / believe things that are constantly advancing the causes of black people.

It's also possible to have black friends and say / do / believe things that actively impede the causes of black people. This doesn't make you a particularly good friend.

i hate ziggy marley's touring keyboardist, i don't care if that makes me racist

I'm not saying the guy shouldn't take some hits for these comments, but you guys are putting a little too much in when you take a musician's ideas as anything approaching cogent, reasoned thought on something as difficult as British immigration policy.

I don't think anybody's doing that, they're mostly saying "look, over the years Eric Clapton has repeatedly championed the views of a notoriously racist politician" and then drawing their own conclusions from that.

ziggy marleys half japanese touring keyboardist here w/a book recommendation 4 u

OK, I see your point there HI DERE. I guess the argument could be made that Clapton is kinda being two faced here.

I was merely defending the right of anyone who may live in a cushy gated community and / or has a voting record similar to Archie Bunker to claim they have black friends and not have it result in a liberal laugh riot, but I guess that's probably for another thread and another time

i just voted for africa on the toto song poll so i'm not a racist anymore

Today is the first day of the rest of your life, Matt. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Oh wait...

just to be clear airports the liberal laugh riot comes from the obv fact that having black friends in no way precludes one from being a racist and to display proof of black friends in defense against racism charges absurdly illustrates ones lack of understanding of racism altogether thereby fanning racism suspicions

my wife's family is friends with an australian family who are very nice and friendly folks but the dad is racist as fuck. he always talks about enoch powell. so i guess i would be suspicious of clapton on those grounds.

this guy is pretty hilarious looking

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/11_01/powellL0411_468x825.jpghttp://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/enoch_powell.jpghttp://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/4/4c/Enoch_Powell.GIF

if trolls could fly ...

good job of hiding the strings holding up his smile

having black friends in no way precludes one from being a racist

I agree with this

to display proof of black friends in defense against racism charges absurdly illustrates ones lack of understanding of racism altogether thereby fanning racism suspicions

but not neccessarily with this. How does it 'absurdly illustate' anything if it's true? I mean, unless you're leading a double life, I don't think this is an altogether 'ridiculous' defense against racism, especially if the person accusing you of racism has never even met a non white person themselves. Kinda hard to be a seething, frothing racist loonie if your best buddies on your bowling team are all black, no?

Is that really what Enoch Powell looks like?

Not all racists are seething, frothing loonies, is the point being made here.

Powell was castigated as an extremist by senior figures in the Conservative Party. This is the same party that less than 5 years earlier had fought a by-election with the slogan "If You Want a Nigger for Your Neighbour, Vote Labour".

^shut the fuck up!! is that true? woah x 1000000

if having black friends in no way precludes one from being a racist then having black friends is a fallacious defense against racism charges

see

Smethwick By-Election, 1964

xp

1+1 may equal two, but whats wrong with saying it equals three?

rivers of blood http://youtube.com/watch?v=zMTndhA21O0

pretty interesting - never heard of this guy before

So, wait...

if having black friends in no way precludes one from being a racist then having black friends is a fallacious defense against racism charges

It seems to me that the reason the "But I have black friends!" defense works in some peoples' minds is that they can point and say "I hate those people, and they happen to be black. I don't hate them BECAUSE they're black, per Exhibit 1 - My Black Friends." This makes some sense to me.

Now, this is entirely different to me than a person who tries to defend themselves as not racist, despite undeniably racist behavior, by pointing to people who they regard as their friends who are black.

FWIW, some skeptics have had nice things to say about From the Cradle - it's the one latter day Clapton album that might be worth your time, but as earlnash mentioned, you can find much better blues albums from the last 30 years elsewhere. Buddy Guy alone has done better (check out 2001's Sweet Tea).

I will second the praise for the Cream reunion DVD. Surprisingly quite good, easily the best thing Clapton has done in the last 40 years.

a lot of cream songs have this sort of low key hazy smokiness that i can appreciate on some level, different thing from fully actualized hard rock like zep or sab

like, how tom heavy the drumming is on sunshine of your love, it kind of floats above everything while stringing it all along

Buddy Guy's Sweet Tea rules. My early Clapton fan pal saw one clip of the Cream reunion and, seeing that Clapton was apparently playing his Strat, shut it right off.

Not to derail the thread, but this is a very funny skewering of Clapton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFiYTs7EWsU

I like fooling people into thinking this is Will Oldham:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awbA-uWHycE

Yeah, some of those sleepy-time "Tulsa" records are harmless...if someone puts them on, I won't object and may even find them pleasant, but they're not something I'd ever want to put on myself.

Eric Clapton is good ... for me to poop on

The version of "We're Going Wrong" on that Cream reunion is totally ace. That said, a huge part is that Jack Bruce's voice is sanded into a fine gravel and has such an ache and Ginger Bakers rolling toms are really tasty.