yeah, i think there's some revisionism going on ITT.
― Steve Shasta, Monday, 11 February 2008 22:52 (eleven years ago) Permalink
I always thought the song was about sexual desire and fear. Indonesian junk was slang for STD. A soldier falling off a euphemism for dying. The kid because of his lack of experience mishears it as a literal soldier falling off a boat.
― leavethecapital, Monday, 11 February 2008 23:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink
From what I've always heard it's not "a soldier falling off", it's "a soldier's (dick) falling off." From some Indonesian clap or something. You never know what you'll catch.
― ellaguru, Monday, 11 February 2008 23:11 (eleven years ago) Permalink
This thread seems a little weird.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 11 February 2008 23:13 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Kids say the darndest things.
― contenderizer, Monday, 11 February 2008 23:17 (eleven years ago) Permalink
sir, render this thread normal
― omar little, Monday, 11 February 2008 23:17 (eleven years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 11 February 2008 23:25 (eleven years ago) Permalink
in those days the idea of yr parents getting stoned was so far fetched those lines were screamingly funny.
This is so far-fetched as to be screamingly funny wrt my parents. Although the idea of my Dad listening to Kiss is even funnier.
― Sundar, Monday, 11 February 2008 23:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Middle of the night, parents figure the kid's asleep, suddenly jarred out of their tryst by the wall shaking riffage, realizing they've been caught.
How does this makes sense? The line is "When I woke up, Mom and Dad were rolling on the couch." It seems pretty clear that they woke him up with their racket.
― Sundar, Monday, 11 February 2008 23:56 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Two thing that have always bothered me. First, why are they "a little weird"? I guess real mommy is weird because she was a "WAC in the Philippines" in a bygone era, and teenage momma is weird for "rolling numbers" and listening to KISS, from the point of view of the barely teenage kid.
The other thing is: why "Surrender"? Who's surrendering and why? On the subway I stitched together the following: the Japanese surrendered in the Pacific Theater, thus ushering in the consumer society in which people listen to KISS records in their finished basements and surrender to the rock and roll.
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 01:52 (eleven years ago) Permalink
It's a thin line between coming up with a good theory and idiotically marching straight on into the killfiles.
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 01:54 (eleven years ago) Permalink
That should be the ILM motto....
― leavethecapital, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 02:37 (eleven years ago) Permalink
(Oh, I guess your point is that he catches his parents and surprises them by blasting Kiss? I still think the parents were listening to his Kiss records. Eh.)
― Sundar, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 02:46 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Yeah, Sundar, that was the "point" (really more of a devil's advocate thing than a point. It wasn's until Steve mentioned Cheap Trick to me on chat today that I began thinking of their songs in detail.)
― ian, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 04:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink
semi-freudian plea for attention--his parents loving each other more than they love him, so he makes a point of rubbing their faces in his catching them.
― ian, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 04:51 (eleven years ago) Permalink
though in light of m coleman's point about crazy generation gaps, i think my whole reading might be bullshit.
― ian, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 04:53 (eleven years ago) Permalink
haha, OK, that's amusing enough to consider.
― Sundar, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 04:58 (eleven years ago) Permalink
I'm so glad this thread was started - for years, I've been too embarrassed to admit a similar lack of full comprehension wrt this song. "Don't give yourself away" = "Don't let your parents know how much you know"? (That they've been dipping into your stash, among other things.)
― Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:34 (eleven years ago) Permalink
I always assumed "Don't give yourself away" was referring DIRECTLY to the notion of surrending, like, giving in but not letting yourself get taken advantage of.
― ian, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:55 (eleven years ago) Permalink
when i was like ten i thought junk was a boat too. love it.
― Emily Bjurnhjam, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:03 (eleven years ago) Permalink
also i sang this at karaoke last week. i've always been confused by this song, but also thought it was vaguely about growing up and drugs and sex and whatever. thanks for the interesting thread.
― Emily Bjurnhjam, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Steve Shasta never came back and did a recap.
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Saturday, 16 February 2008 02:37 (eleven years ago) Permalink
The part of this I love is the wondering what happens to young freaks and losers, and the horrified realization that some of them might have grown up to be your parents.
― nabisco, Saturday, 16 February 2008 02:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Like in that Delmore Schwartz short story?
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Saturday, 16 February 2008 03:24 (eleven years ago) Permalink
(I never put that much thought into these lyrics before but this thread has made me realize that they're brilliant.)
― Sundar, Saturday, 16 February 2008 03:37 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Also it made me finally download Heaven Tonight, for which I'm thankful. (I still haven't quite shaken the suspicion that "Surrender" and "I Want You to Want Me" are the best Cheap Trick songs though. I probably need to hear the 1st album.)
― Sundar, Saturday, 16 February 2008 03:40 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Maybe I meant Robert Heinlein story?
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Saturday, 16 February 2008 03:43 (eleven years ago) Permalink
(No, that doesn't work quite right either)
I probably need to hear the 1st album.
Um, YES. Immediately.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 February 2008 03:46 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Downloading as we speak.
― Sundar, Saturday, 16 February 2008 03:59 (eleven years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 February 2008 04:04 (eleven years ago) Permalink
Get "In Color" too. A lot of Rick Nielsen's early lyrics are off the wall brilliant.
― leavethecapital, Saturday, 16 February 2008 04:10 (eleven years ago) Permalink
(I have In Color already.)
― Sundar, Saturday, 16 February 2008 04:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink
(I'm listening to it now in fact.)
Cheap Trick = best American band ever, underrated even by fanatics
― Dimension 5ive, Saturday, 16 February 2008 04:18 (eleven years ago) Permalink
(Because I don't consider P.Funk a band, more like a collective with more than 50 members led by one guy.)
― Dimension 5ive, Saturday, 16 February 2008 04:40 (eleven years ago) Permalink
I too was inspired to finally download Heaven Tonight, and while Surrender is still one of the greatest songs ever, I'm really struck by 1. the similarity between this album and the 2nd Lee Harvey Oswald album (which also loves Brontosaurus) and 2. apparently I prefer Blastronaut, even if it doesn't have a single track as killer as Surrender.
― dlp9001, Monday, 19 May 2008 21:19 (ten years ago) Permalink
Love the Lee Harvey Oswald Band (& Sims' songwriting in general), but it's hard for me to rate anything over Heaven Tonight.
― contenderizer, Monday, 19 May 2008 21:31 (ten years ago) Permalink
OK, here we go. I used to be in the military in 1979, I also played guitar and did drugs back then and I went overseas to the Philippines. My father served in WWII like most people my age so I can somewhat relate to this song and I heard it quite a lot back then. So while I'm not Rick Neilson (The guitarist for Cheap Trick) I do think I get the meaning of this song and I did a little checkingon a couple of things.
"Mother told me yes she told me I'd meet girls like you She also told me stay away, you'll never know what you'll catch"
This was a very common thing that parents would tell their boys (my parents told it to me) "Stay away from loose women or you'll catch the clap". I'm surprised some don't know this, it seemed quite obvious to me.It was also echoed many times, much stronger, and even with old black & white movie projector films when I was in the military. "Why Does It Hurt When I Pee?" was the name of one of them I think. STDs were quite rampant.
"Just the other day I heard a soldier falling off Some Indonesian junk that's going round."
That first line is wrong, it is actually "Just the other day I heard of soldiers falling out". To fall out is to fall out of muster. Muster is like roll call when all the soldiers form up in lines and rows and are counted.This happens on base every morning and when your company is reporting somewhere for duty. To fall out the way the song refers to means these soldiers were missing because they were sick. Why? because "Some Indonesian Junk was going round" Junk was a term used to describe heroin back then. So these soldiers were either high or suffering withdrawal symptoms from heroin. Indonesia was a big producer of cheap heroin back then. When you need a fix of heroin it makes you so physically sick you throw up so either way these guys were in no shape for duty and let me tell you, back then this was a big problem and in 1981 the military started a campaign to crack down on drug abuse. Many in the military were either sentenced to long prison terms and given dishonorable discharges if they were caught trafficking, or for lesser offenses they were given other than honorable discharges and lost all benefits.
"Mommy's alright, Daddy's alright, they just seem a little weird Surrender, surrender, but don't give yourself away"
Here is the chorus. The first line he is telling himself that mommy and daddy are all right because he's never seen therm like this before. They are acting weird and he's not used to seeing them this way. (because they are high)The second line is 2 parts - Surrender, Surrender, means give into the fact that they are not the perfect examples of parents and although they tell you not to use drugs, they are hypocrites and use them themselves. The second part "but don't give yourself away" means don't let on that you know this and don't let them know that you do drugs yourself because you know that it won't go good for you anyways.
Father says your mother's right, she's really up on things Before we married, Mommy served in the WACs in the Philippines Now, I had heard the WACs recruited old maids for the war* But mommy isn't one of those I've known her all these years
Thev WACs were the Womens Army Corp and the military would readily recruit people from the Philippines because they were a big help to the U.S. during WWII. The Philippine government allowed the U.S. to build a major naval baseallowing the U.S. to be within striking range of Japan. In the 70s when I was there in the Philippines there were hookers by the thousands because that was easy money and at the time 1 U.S. dollar was worth 8 pesos. That means our dollars were worth 8 of theirs. So getting a job in the military would mean striking it rich to their families without having to degrade yourself. The 3rd line was originally *"Now I had heard the WACS recruited old maids, dykes and whores." But it was censored and they took out dykes, and whores. Yes back then that was a big no no on the radio. So all you heard was "old maids" which really didn't make much sense because why would some guy want to start a family with an old maid or even a dyke for that matter? That leaves only a whore which again supports the first part of the song where "she also told me stay away you'll never know what you'll catch".
Whatever happened to all this season's losers of the year?** Everytime I got to thinking where'd they disappear? When I woke up, Mom and Dad are rolling on the couch Rolling numbers, rock and rolling, got my Kiss records out
The first line was again censored. The original was "Whatever happened to all this season's murderers and queers?". As you can see these lyrics were not LGBT friendly and it was really a good thing these lines were censored orthis entire song would have been pulled and Cheap Trick would have suffered some backlash for sure. Here I think the kid is looking for some kind of distraction from all of the stuff going on at home. Something in the news he canfocus on and point to and say how messed up that is so he doesn't have to face his own parents. The second line is all too familiar. I myself used the phrase "Let's roll some numbers and figure it out" as a way to let my buddies know I had some weed and we could go roll a joint to get stoned while in the presence of strait people so they wouldn't catch on. Rolling numbers is rolling a joint, a number is another word for joint or if you are that out of it, yes a marijuana cigarette. Coincidentally, my generation was far from the first to use this kind of nomenclature. The next part "Rocking and rolling" was from the preceding generation that referred to sex as Rocking and Rolling, HA! Yes that's right, old blues songs that had lines like "rocking all nite long" were not talking about just listening to music. Rocking and Rolling was dubbed from a ship's movement on the ocean, get the picture? Then we come to the part where his parents "got my kiss records out". Now most of you might think "So what"? Well let me tell you something, back then a record collection was quite personal and for your parents to pull out YOUR records and start playing them, well that was sacrilege. To wake up and find your parents stoned and playing your records (which were your symbol of teenage rebellion) it would have just blown your mind. So the chorus "Surrender..." he's basically trying not to freak out. Just give it up already because you can't rebel against these people, you can't do anything to come close to freaking them out. They are just too hardcore.
And that is my take on this song. Hope you enjoyed it and learned something along the way.
― Zagan, Monday, 1 August 2016 15:11 (two years ago) Permalink