TS: Paul McCartney's "Pipes of Peace" vs "Press to Play"

"Flaming Pie", and "Young Boy" in particular, was way bigger Stateside btw.

Interestingly, George Harrison didn't continue on after his two most new wave albums: Somewhere in England and Gone Troppo ("Blood from a Clone," "All Those Years Ago," "Wake up, My Love," "I Really Love You," and "Wrack My Brain" from Ringo's album). I see Cloud Nine as being more bland than these two albums in the same way that I see post-new wave McCartney as being more bland.

AFAICT the real evolution in McCartney over the course of the 80s is the decline and fall of electric guitar from his arsenal; when it appears it tends to be as an overproduced lead, and to a forced rock effect, with "Move Over Busker" being only the most obnoxious example. (See also "Looking For Changes.") He's sounded a lot more natural, if less avant-garde, on his last few outings - acoustic, classicist pop with folky flavorings. Now I'm just off on a complete tangent, and that still leaves Run Devil Run to be accounted for, but it's time I got back to the kitchen...

What happened? Is it silly to wonder whether Lennon's death somehow took it out of him?

If you want to discuss McCartney's slump in the 80s, by all means do, but leave his singles out of it - there were assuredly some duds, but probably not any more than there were in the 70s...

"Pretty Little Head", "We All Stand Together" and "Temporary Secretary" must be the three worst McCartney singles ever.

Press to Play released 25 years ago this week!

It's definitely one of my favorites of his, maybe my favorite as a kid. Pipes is alright enough, certainly not a nadir, esp compared to the shittiness of Off the Ground or the boringness of his career in the 00s.

Is the hatred for "We All Stand Together" a britishes thing? I understand it would be annoying if I actually heard it frequently, but I used to love that Rupert short and I've always thought it was a great kids song.

"Press To Play" is still weird. But then, it still has "Only Love Remains", which is one of his best ever ballads, even including the Beatles ones.

While "Pipes Of Peace" is still kinda ZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZzZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZ

Personally, I don't think any of these albums are great - "Press To Play" is pretty much unmemorable for the most part, and I've never liked the production. I never really feel like listening to it, although it's a more interesting record than "Pipes Of Peace", for better or for worse. "Pipes Of Peace", on the other hand, has two salvageable tracks on it for me - the title track and 'So Bad', which I quite like. So, to answer the question, "Pipes Of Peace". Although, I feel that these two albums, alongside "Wings At The Speed Of Sound" and "Wild Life", represent the worst end of McCartney's solo career. "Off The Ground" gets a bad rap, but I prefer everything that McCartney did from "Flowers In The Dirt" onwards compared to a lot of stuff he did in the '70s, even.

I posted this on the Thriller thread. I grew up with Frog Chorus (had it on video and we'd watch it over and over as children). It came with two quite interesting b-films:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRg8wxZym6k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prH0Y4ex_m0

The first one was credited to Suzy & the Red Stripes. The latter completely crazy and every frame was hand drawn (amazingly).

The thing with the (much-maligned) "We All Stand Together", is that if you could strip away all the orchestration and 'frog noises', and just have McCartney sitting there playing it on an acoustic guitar, it really isn't a bad song in itself. It's a much better children's song than "Yellow Submarine" or "All Together Now" is.

I like it.

I'm glad that people do. I've often found "We All Stand Together" is used among people who haven't heard much of McCartney's solo work to dismiss his entire output, though - which is a bit frustrating.

"Off The Ground" gets a bad rap

"Off The Ground" is OK IMO. Out of his most recent work, I have more of problem with "Driving Rain", which save for an excellent title track and a couple of nice ballads doesn't really contain all too much of value.

I like quite a lot of the material on "Driving Rain", but it would have been even better (in my opinion) if the album wasn't quite so long and McCartney had taken the "one man band" approach with the material rather than letting a slick, seasoned LA session band get their hands on it. I would have bumped 'Spinning On An Axis', 'Back In The Sunshine Again' and 'Riding Into Jaipur' from the album completely (I don't see 'Freedom' as part of the album and never have). 'Lonely Road', 'From A Lover To A Friend', 'She's Given Up Talking', 'I Do', 'Your Loving Flame' are all some of my favourite recent-period McCartney tunes, and 'Heather' may be the best thing on there - just don't expect any live airings of it anytime soon! ;)

"And I will dance to a runcible tune."

It's one of McCartney's Edward Lear-isms, isn't it?

I agree with Turrican about Driving Rain only I would put She's Given Up Talking in the dud column and mention Your Way as one of the better tracks. From a Lover to a Friend is especially nice but not a great choice for a single.

As for the original thread question I'd say both albums are pretty uninspired but the period production of Press to Play makes it a somewhat more interesting misfire if that makes any sense. Maybe i should give these two another listen...

"She's Given Up Talking" hit me kind of hard. There was a girl in one of my elementary school classes that didn't say a word the whole year.

Colin, you've nailed the thing on the head better than I could - as much as I don't like the production on "Press To Play", it is the production that makes the record interesting - especially now that we're viewing it from a standpoint far away from its release. I do agree with you about 'From A Lover To A Friend' not being a great choice for a single - it's far too introspective (personal, even) for that. But then again, just exactly who WAS buying Paul McCartney singles in 2001 aside from the faithful?

'She's Given Up Talking' is great, though... it would have snuck in nicely on Chaos And Creation In The Backyard, and I'm sure Nigel Godrich would have done great things with it if he'd got his hands on it... it seems like the kind of sombre tune he excels at producing.

"Press" is one of my top ten Macca solo singles.

I wrote this a long time ago.

Oh god, I forgot about that one. Yeah, it is a decent enough tune and I'd probably like it if it was on "Flowers In The Dirt" or something - but the version on "Press To Play" sounds so cold.

Precisely why I like it -- this fool and his producer messing around with the expensive Fairlights he just bought. The Linda harmonies are daft in the best way.

Who was the producer on "Press To Play" again? Hugh Padgham?

yep

Yeah... it's a bit odd, because I thought he did a fantastic job on XTC's "English Settlement", and I thought the drum sound he got for Copeland on The Police's "Synchronicity" was excellent, so I do usually like his productions, just not this particular one!

"Off The Ground" is OK IMO. Out of his most recent work, I have more of problem with "Driving Rain", which save for an excellent title track and a couple of nice ballads doesn't really contain all too much of value.

one of those things where i can't comprehend someone else enjoying it (besides my mother) -- i just dread "off the ground," it actually makes my head hurt just thinking about it (let alone hearing it). awful, awful music, only point where i've ever truly wanted to punch him in the face to get him to stop.

Yeah... it's a bit odd, because I thought he did a fantastic job on XTC's "English Settlement", and I thought the drum sound he got for Copeland on The Police's "Synchronicity" was excellent, so I do usually like his productions, just not this particular one!

Padgam was still very much a Steve Lillywhite protege at the time of those. Not so much anymore by the time he got to "Press To Play" and other 1983 works of his like "Invisible Touch" by Genesis.

Off the Ground has some seriously great songs (Looking for Changes, Mistress and Maid, The Lovers that Never Were) that I wouldn't admit to enjoying in public. Soooo much dross though.

Driving Rain is just awesome, although I agree almost completely with Turrican's rejections (Freedom puts all music everywhere to shame). Chaos and Creation is mostly good and Memory Almost Full is average.

Hey, Autumn. Yeah, those songs you've mentioned are some of my personal highlights of Off The Ground too... The Lovers That Never Were especially, which I think is up there as one of McCartney's best solo tunes!

"Off The Ground" first and foremost has "Golden Earth Girl" and "C'Mon People", which are both Paul at his best. Some of the "rock" songs I can do without, but "The Lovers That Never Were" is just as great as most of his other Costello-collaborations.

"Chaos and Creation" is not just "mostly good" IMO. It's just plain great, verging on fantastic. His best solo work since "Tug Of War" and his second best overall.

I like both "Golden Earth Girl" and "C'Mon People", but personally I don't really feel that they're the best tracks on the album, let alone McCartney at his best.

I do agree with you about "Chaos And Creation In The Backyard", though - it is truly fantastic and one of McCartney's best ever solo albums. Up there with "Flowers In The Dirt" for me.

Man, "Pretty Little Head" is so great. Even in a career absolutely strewn with bizarre lyrics foisted onto pop singles, it really stands out.

Hillmen are sworn to allegiance
Living a life of silent dignity
For your protection, only so you
Don't worry - your pretty little head!

Now that's what I want from McCartney - sorry Geir! "Only Love Remains" and "Once Upon A Long Ago" are total snoozes by comparison. At least dude was trying to stretch himself; it happened to be in the direction of a really square conception of "artiness" circa 1985 but I'll take it. "Hillsmen! Hillsmen!"

_Yeah... it's a bit odd, because I thought he did a fantastic job on XTC's "English Settlement", and I thought the drum sound he got for Copeland on The Police's "Synchronicity" was excellent, so I do usually like his productions, just not this particular one!_

Padgam was still very much a Steve Lillywhite protege at the time of those. Not so much anymore by the time he got to "Press To Play" and other 1983 works of his like "Invisible Touch" by Genesis.

Geir was dead right about this – people are missing what Padgam was hired to bring to Press To Play. It wasn't XTC or the Ghost in the Machine-era Police. It was Invisible Touch-era Genesis – the enormous gated drums and sampled atmospherics of "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight." If you need any proof that this was a Big 80s Production Experiment, note that each song has a drawing by Paul in the liner notes of what sounds are mixed where along the stereo spectrum.

This is entirely consistent with Paul's approach in the 70s of nicking a sound he loved for his own purposes – Aja on "Arrow Through Me," Armed Forces on "Getting Closer," Before and After Science on "Summer's Day Song." It's one of the things I love about Paul and, hence, why PTP wins this for me as pretty much the whole record adopts this approach with success. And lest I be accused of fetishizing the approach over the music, I should note that Paul attempts the same thing with the Trevor Horn/Steve Lipson stuff on Flowers in the Dirt – and just about completely flubs it.

A few other points worth making: the Eric Stewart collaboration starting on Tug of War was generally a really fruitful one for Paul and "However Absurd" and "Footprints" on PTP are excellent. The latter is a minor masterpiece – the production is detailed, the melody and arrangement surprise and the lyric is pretty cool as well. OTOH, "It's Not True" (a solo credit btw) is Paul's full-throated defense of Linda and it fucking sucks.

Not to nitpick, but PTP was released in September '86, only six or eight weeks after IT. He may have wanted Big Happening Sounds but he couldn't have known IT would become a monster.

Fair enough – tho Padgham also worked on all the 80s Phil Collins stuff to that point as well. So Paul clearly had plenty of opportunities to familiarize himself with that sound.

Definitely. Especially his work for the Police, revered by boomers. There's an anecdote from '83 in which Mick Jagger asks Jim Barber "to play like Andy Summers."

reissue business!

http://theseconddisc.com/2015/07/30/together-in-perfect-harmony-paul-mccartneys-tug-of-war-and-pipes-of-peace-join-archive-collection/

The Pipes of Peace 2-CD Special Edition consists of the original album plus a 9-track bonus disc including Spike Stent’s new 2015 remix of “Say Say Say,” demos of three album tracks, outtakes “It’s Not On” and “Simple As That,” the previously unreleased “Christian Bop” and more.

plus Tug.. gets a remixed version of the whole album?!

“Press To Play” any day. At least the first half.

“Good Times Coming/Feel the Sun” was the first thing that struck me listening at the store when I bought this used when I lived in Austin in the late 90s. I had forgotten the little keyboard solo, bass groove section tho which is kind of a hilariously funky breakdown.

The title of “Move Over Busker” has always reminded me of Buster, the Phil Collins movie. Which seems appropriate for this record.

Not sure if I mentioned it on this thread or elsewhere but Paul’s panoramic drawings in the sleeve notes of who is doing what where in the stereo mix really captures the aesthetic of PTP.

HOWEVER ABSOID

gave Tug of War a listen again this morning for the first time in many years, there are some unforgivable production choices on this, amazing to think of how deeply Martin allowed Take It Away to go into schmaltzland. however I liked Ballroom Dancing more than I remembered. Pound is Sinking and Wanderlust are still the standouts.

Pipes of Peace has the title track and Say Say Say going for it and not really anything else.

I’ve always loved The Man and The Other Me, which I think has an ingenious lyrical conceit.

dustbin lid?

mazing to think of how deeply Martin allowed Take It Away to go into schmaltzland.

wau, hard disagree! The fadeout with the horn section and the Paul-Linda-Eric Stewart harmonies are goose-pimply.

Not the dustbin lid, though I enjoy that too in a weird kind of way.

"Average Person" kinda sucks but is also a weird little earworm, especially the "Yes, dear, you heard right" segment. Also, the "I know for sure, one day I'm gonna be a super..." breakdown is wonderfully strange, just unfortunately pasted in to this more stately Tug of War soundscape which doesn't work for me. If it overall had a little more of a homemade 'pressed sandwich of weird synth sounds' McCartney II vibe, all horn-ish synths and imitation kazoo noises, I'd be on board! The more spacious production with the pianos and booming drums... bleah.

I dunno, I guess I should appreciate Macca once again trying to marry his really weird musings to a 'normal' pop-rock song, but....

tell me to PRESS!