the band that best addrsses 'Irishness' and the subject of Ireland

NEUTRAL milk hotel! *winks*

Bah, humbug.

(Possible answer: JA music seems to be on a tip of continuously re-telling / mythologising the present day...).

oh for the days of coffin ships and potato famines.

ps kilian, thank you, you lovely man, you.

Roy Keane to thread!

There's plenty of romantic sentimentalisation of Africa in Jamaican music though DS, yes? So it's really the Irishness which you find cloying?

Ummmm, did The Pogues actually reflect the genuine experience of Irishness and being Irish or did they (and similarly The Men They Couldn't Hang) not in actual fact reflect the (inevitably somewhat distorted and romanticised) impression of Irishness and being Irish that you'd get from growing up (as most of them did) as 2nd generation Irish immigrants listening to their ex-pat. parents sentimental reminiscences about their home land?

Please note I'm not trying to detract from the Pogues in any way, merely to identify them as what they were - a bunch of London punks with Irish parents.

Stiff Little Fingers and Saw Doctors OTM.

How about The Chieftains, The Dubliners, Christy Moore?

... this is kind of my point: that's been one of the key experiences of 'Irishness' for a long time, hasn't it?

Dave, I was trying to make conversation because I'm interested in this subject: I wasn't trying to shut you up.

Christy Moore is a good nomination, for this thread. Probably the best I can think of.

I dunno about "Irishness" - it seems to be a basic element of human nature that people of all nationalities become increasingly anxious to develop and cling to an increasingly romantic and idealised version of their homeland the longer they're away from the dreary realities of it, yes.

I imagine that if I were forced to spend the rest of my days on some horrible Caribbean island right now, within a couple of years I'd probably start singing mournful songs about how much I miss the joys of driving 'round the M25; the efficiency of South West Trains; the exemplary levels of cleanliness, service and excellent cuisine at the Moto services on the M4; and the wonderfully refreshing rain that occasionally interrupts the glorious sunshine than glints enticingly off the abandoned shopping trolleys that have been dumped in the Kennet canal.

There again....

This makes it sound like Ireland needs a Manic Street Preachers.

I'm saying we don't need a house band at all. My thesis is that we no longer have any stories worth singing about.

Actually, there's a native comedy troupe who occasionally appear (Mighty Wind-style) as fake-folkie balladeers, satirising the whiny, recriminatory self-pity that pervades so much of Ireland's "trad" songbook.
They're called The Hairy Bowsies*, and their songs tackle Perfidious Albion (Ye Dirty English Bastards) and sacred cows such as the 1916 Rising (The Craic We Had The Day We Died For Ireland) and the Potato Famine (Jaysus, The Spuds Aren't Lookin' The Best).

(*"Bowsie" is a Dublin slangword connoting a man of low breeding and unpleasant personal habits.)

philomena begley

I always wondered if "the ambulance . . . took little Jim away" in the Undertones' song because he committed suicide or because a bomb got him.

What, no-one's mentioned The Cranberries yet :-)

No Foster and Allen? It's a disgrace, so it is.

Re: The supposed Irishness of the Pogues. The line-up in their mid-80's heyday was as follows:

Shane McGowan who was born in Tunbridge Wells
James Fearnley who was born in Manchester
Spider Stacey who was born in Eastbourne
Jem Finer who was born in Stoke
Andrew Ranken who was born in London
Cait O'Riordan who was born in Nigeria (before moving to London)
Darrell Hunt who was born in Hampshire

but(although he didn't join till Rum, Sodomy etc)....
Phil Chevron was born in Dublin YAAAAAY!

A lot of 19th century National Romantic composers, painters and authors preferred to live outside their home countries.

Their "home country" is England.

both Dad Punk tbf

Theres nothing blindingly original about them (and why does that have to be the be all and end all) by any means but I love them. "Boys in the better land" is a banger

And yes the lyrics do address what it's like to live in late '10s Dublin

listening to them for the first time coincidentally. keep reminding me of the hold steady.

I definitely think Republic of Loose were responding to some idea of ''Irishness" in a more complex and nuanced way than Bono would have you believe:

"The Celtic twilight turned into Celtic soul with Van Morrison. Republic of Loose grabbed the Celtic tiger by the tail, swung it around their heads and threw it out the window into the cosmos. They're sophisticated soul bootboys."

Cruelty Man

Once there was the cruelty man
The whip of the state in his hands
Creeping round the halting site to steal their infancy
If they held out in the ditches well then come the morn
They had to move on again
Brush that history down the shore, disinfect the corridors
Mother she is fallen & the father is unknown
Superior vile she burnt the files, left a generation in tatters

They’re rising, they’re rising, their chances of surviving
What’s really after happening in the fields?

A young one that was raped so young
Took decades to discover her tongue
Touch me daughter sergeant & I’ll break your fucking knees
You’re the bastion of misogyny
Protected by the baton of ignorance

They’re rising, they’re rising, their chances of surviving
What’s really after happening in the fields?

The parish is rising, the parish is rising
In the diocese & the villages that were poisoned
The parish is rising, the parish is rising
To find out what has happened in the fields

What kind of mind debased & rank
Buries babies in a septic tank

If there’s a heaven father then you’re going to fuckin hell
You may not have signed off the heinous crimes
But pulled down the blinds when they came for the answers

They’re rising, they’re their chances of surviving
What’s really after happening in the fields?

They’re rising, they’re rising but no-one’s televising
What’s really after happening in the fields?

I'm posting this here because this is one of the few threads that's ever mentioned Christy Moore. I did a bit of a rabbit-hole dive on him recently — I was aware of him and love "Ride On," but hadn't really listened to much. In the course of that, the song that really leapt out at me was "Bright Blue Rose," which (like "Ride On") is a Jimmy MacCarthy song. Apparently kind of a modern standard in Ireland? Anyway, it's a beautiful tune and just wanted to call attention to it. I guess it somewhat fits this thread because its soaked in a sort of mystical literary Catholicism that feels very Irish to me. This is Christy and Jimmy singing it together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glGdAwGBt8s

Anyone listening to Kneecap from Ireland

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/arts/music/kneecap-irish-rap-celtic-revival.html

Yeah I like them

ctrl-F "Planxty"
HWAT/?