This message is not for Van haters, but for Van fans. I first got hip to Van when I saw the "Last Waltz." When he came out I thought "who the heck is that little fat guy, he's all flabby and dressed in a brown pantsuit? He looks like a middle-aged lady. On top of that he's doing this ridiculous chorus-line kicking." Then I kept listening and I shut up. His was the most definitive performance in the movie, his and Muddy Waters.
About Van sideman and territory-sharer Georgie Fame, who was dissed above: I saw Georgie once at Ronnie Scott's in London, and he put on one good show. He did one bit where, in a tribute to his former boss, he sang a medley of Moondance and some African song from a movie soundtrack (was it one of those Cornel Wilde things?) that was pretty damn great.
― Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 15 November 2004 04:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― prov, Monday, 15 November 2004 06:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 15 November 2004 06:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Monday, 15 November 2004 17:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 15 November 2004 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link
I've never thought of Van Morrison as hippy-anything (or especially earnest, for that matter). Unlike the faux-mysticism of, say, Led Zeppelin, Van's lyrics steer clear of gnomes and m'ladys, are grounded instead in back alleys, snowstorms, trains, Safeway supermarkets, and memory. More importantly, the music is equally grounded: in r&b. His 70's catalogue (Moondance, Tupelo Honey, St Dominick's Preview, Hardnose the Highway, Veedon Fleece, and though it's '69, Astral Weeks belongs in this group too) is at least as strong as Al Green's. After that, for the most part it seems like he started reading a bit too much of his own press: yes, the mysticism did start to grate. I've been listening to him a lot again. He good.
― Burr (Burr), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― shookout (shookout), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Burr (Burr), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link
how hold on a moment...
― amateur!!st, Monday, 15 November 2004 20:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― rumple, Monday, 15 November 2004 20:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― rumple, Monday, 15 November 2004 20:36 (nineteen years ago) link
but al green is al green!
― amateur!!st, Monday, 15 November 2004 20:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― rumple, Monday, 15 November 2004 21:17 (nineteen years ago) link
anyway style IS substance. dude.
― amateur!!st, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:47 (nineteen years ago) link
yeah, you would believe that sort of twaddle. Le Roy Neiman has a lot of "style," how do you feel about him? (here comes the lecture) I hope you wear a beret when you type out these missives. And one earring. No, that wouldn't go with the short pants and riding crop.
intelligent discussion may now resume.
― the dude., Tuesday, 16 November 2004 06:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!!st, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 08:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― rumple, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 08:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!!st, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 15:43 (nineteen years ago) link
I've been totally gaying out on Van lately. Saw the last waltz again and it really hit me how fucking BIZARRE the man is...such strange mannerisms onstage, so "passionate" but yet seems sort of bitter and hateful and totally uncaring about the crowd...
but so anyway yesterday I picked up "It's too late to stop now" a live album with his band, the Caledonia Soul Orchestra...honestly I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded...every song is retooled, rearranged...huge band, strings + horns + a core of a whoop-ass RnB band and rhythm secion....Van is all over the fucking place on this....slurring everything into a million fake endings and rave up WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP rhythm section hits...tuuurn on yuuuuur raDIO blooblobleeebledeeedlebloooombabloooobeeeedoodbeee..urrrrrnnnnn letcha lights shaaane....lettttit shine...
the fourth side "Heres Comes the night"---->gloria----->caravan----->cypress avenue is amazing...i think it's about five minutes before cypress is even close to being recognizable....
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 24 September 2007 16:43 (sixteen years ago) link
yeah that last waltz performance is strange, right? he's definitely got a weird mix of wanting to be this classic entertainer type and then also just having a "fuck you" attitude. it works! the jumpsuit, on the other hand ...
there's a beyond-fantastic bootleg from a 1972 live radio session that has some incredible van moments -- a definitive "Friday's Child," a beautiful "into the mystic" and an incredible reading of dylan's "just like a woman." that thing deserves official release, seriously. it's a peak.
as much as i like van, i haven't delved very deeply into his post-mid 70s stuff. but it seems as though there's plenty of worthwhile albums/songs ...
― tylerw, Monday, 24 September 2007 16:50 (sixteen years ago) link
As much as I love "Caravan" from TLW, I love his vocal on "Tura Lura Lura" even more. God I wish there was an outtake of that floating somewhere.
― Jazzbo, Monday, 24 September 2007 17:31 (sixteen years ago) link
He's complete crap, of course.
― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 01:38 (sixteen years ago) link
Wrong, Alex. The man could do the neatest codas.
― Cunga, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 01:40 (sixteen years ago) link
If you enjoy listening to walruses gargle with their own filth, then I suppose so.
― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 01:43 (sixteen years ago) link
Oh goodness, well, a gurgling walrus with beautiful strings behind him then.
― Cunga, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 01:46 (sixteen years ago) link
i thought he was drunk/coked out of his mind in the last waltz?
i like van, but i'm only recently recovering from drastic overexposure some fifteen years ago.
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 03:01 (sixteen years ago) link
I owe a drink to whoever posted that YouTube clip of him doing "Warm Love" on German TV in '74 onto a different Van thread.
― Matos W.K., Wednesday, 26 September 2007 22:50 (sixteen years ago) link
Of all of the songs on my favorite Van Morrison album, I'm undecided as to whether my favorite song is "Ring Worm" or "Want a Danish".
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 22:58 (sixteen years ago) link
boring old fart, self righteous too.
― max r, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 22:59 (sixteen years ago) link
It's interesting how many of the dismissive responses are based on not knowing his music in the first place. There also seems to be a sense of pride in that. Not sure why. I've worked in places where I've had to listen to Frankie Valli to the point where I've wanted his music vanquished from existence, but unless your uncle tortured you as a small child with a replay of his most obvious hits I've never considered Van to generate such snap judgement hate.
Now, granted, from everything I've read and heard from others much more in tune with the music business, Van looks to be a pretty difficult, cantankerous a-hole, which doesn't even put him in rarified company. Yes, he's been making pretty much the same album for years. If you like that sort of thing, it's not so bad. And he has been at it for decades.
But if you're going to judge the man, at least hear some of his best work. I wouldn't go judging the entire career of the Cure based on "Wish"...
While every Van fan I've met has different personal faves, I'd offer up the obvious: anything by Them, Astral Weeks, St. Dominic's Preview, Veedon Fleece, Wavelength (considered his most "commercial" album for its upbeat nature and slightly "slicker" production), Common One (if you think Van's a snoozer, then this will be your best evidence, but maybe I just like to daydream...), Into the Music, Beautiful Vision, Hymns to the Silence...
His radio hits only tell one very small part of the story. And he really doesn't fall into "hippie" music. He wore some bad hippie clothes back in the day.
For those who do like him, hopefully YouTube still has the video of him and Chet Baker doing Send in the Clowns. I'd only heard it on bootleg and imagined Van really biting into it, the way he phrases things and such...and then I saw this video. AND HE'S READING THE WORDS OFF A PIECE OF PAPER. Ah, the mastery of performance.
I'd submit a link but I'm new here and learning how to operate this formatting stuff. Hopefully, in time.
― smurfherder, Thursday, 27 September 2007 06:00 (sixteen years ago) link
"Ring Worm" is totally better, for the "yooouuuu've got ring worm" near the end.
Oh, and Van's good. I love St. Dominic's Preview. Also "Snow in San Anselmo" is one of the coolest songs ever.
― clotpoll, Thursday, 27 September 2007 06:38 (sixteen years ago) link
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cxw98-SBhGo
― Mark Rich@rdson, Thursday, 27 September 2007 07:15 (sixteen years ago) link
While every Van fan I've met has different personal faves, I'd offer up the obvious: anything by Them, Astral Weeks, St. Dominic's Preview, Veedon Fleece...
all very solid, Astral Weeks being obvious, Veedon Fleece being the hidden grail, and I'd add Tupelo Honey and (god help me) Moondance. It'll never be my favorite, and it's way too exposed, but goddamnit if it's not a good record.
Alex, stop taking the piss and do something useful. We like Van Morrison, ok?
― kenan, Thursday, 27 September 2007 07:22 (sixteen years ago) link
That two disc "Story of Them" set is amazing -- it's pretty much their full output as a band (with Van, but Them without Van is like VU without Lou), and it's very-good-to-legendary from end to end. I don't get tired of it.
― kenan, Thursday, 27 September 2007 07:33 (sixteen years ago) link
i rebought astral weeks a couple days ago (traded it a few years back, then suddenly this week felt the overwhelming urge to hear it again), and what strikes me most about it is how . . . not like its reputation it is, in so many ways. like someone said upthread, for all the talk about van being a hippy-dippy mystic, most of the words are about very realistic scenes and situations.
it reminds me of talk talk's later work in some ways, that same contemplative mood, the way the old persona (the van of "gloria," the mark hollis of "it's my life") occasionally croaks through the new one, the way virtually any sound can take on meaning and depth. "slim slow slider" especially would fit in very well on laughing stock.
i also think the string arrangements are beautiful, almost unbelievably so, and i'm not really one to fawn over stuff like that.
― J.D., Thursday, 27 September 2007 07:45 (sixteen years ago) link
i've got to get that them compilation. "gloria" is one of those overplayed classics that somehow never gets old; there's something so feral and almost unsettling about van's angry bark.
anyone heard blowin' your mind?
― J.D., Thursday, 27 September 2007 07:47 (sixteen years ago) link
Here's the '74 German TV clip that Matos refers to:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=urpnB_5E4ro
Great fuckin' band; these must be the same guys that recorded the It's Too Late to Stop Now album with him. Aewsome!
― JN$OT, Thursday, 27 September 2007 07:54 (sixteen years ago) link
"gloria" is one of those overplayed classics that somehow never gets old
tru, but "mystic eyes" > "gloria"
― kenan, Thursday, 27 September 2007 08:02 (sixteen years ago) link
all I have to say about Van Morrison is that I bought Astral Weeks based solely on the strength of its reputation and the fact that I felt like I ought to have heard it -- one of those "eat your vegetables" record purchases -- and when I listened to it for the first time, it was so beautiful that I had no choice to duck out of work early, take a walk through the park, and call some people I hadn't talked to in months just to tell them about this incredible music.
(ps it's also my favorite album to listen to while high)
― bernard snowy, Thursday, 27 September 2007 09:58 (sixteen years ago) link
That Van and Chet clip is beautiful
― sonofstan, Thursday, 27 September 2007 10:49 (sixteen years ago) link
He's complete crap, of course. And Killing Joke are a bunch of candy-assed poseurs.
― Jazzbo, Thursday, 27 September 2007 11:33 (sixteen years ago) link
Who is taking the piss? I'm sincere. Van Morrison is a bloated tub of fatuous lard.
And Killing Joke are a bunch of candy-assed poseurs.
Compared to Van Morrison? Baahahahahahahaahahaha
― Alex in NYC, Thursday, 27 September 2007 12:12 (sixteen years ago) link
Gifted musician - guitar, alto sax, harmonica....
Van Morrison is not a gifted alto sax player!
― Tom D., Thursday, 27 September 2007 12:14 (sixteen years ago) link
the end of this vers. of cypress avenue is fucking nuts! he's so weird...his mannerism onstage are fascinating to me...
honestly, sometimes the only guy that really reminds me of how van was onstage is Al Johnson from US Maple, sometimes i think he stole some of his bizarre schtick from Van...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=svgvIsbKL28&mode=related&search=
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:44 (sixteen years ago) link
i just picked up the new vinyl reissue on Sundazed...it's good...it's definitely about exactly what you'd expect...some sort of middle ground between Them and astral weeks...a lot of it is just good solid RnB stuff...also brown eyed girl obv. and then the TB Sheets as well, which I guess his first weird art epic type thing....very odd song, almost stranger in it's way than Astral Weeks...I'd actually never heard it before and I expected something more similar to Astral Weeks but it's a lot different actually.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:46 (sixteen years ago) link
Van Morrison is a bloated tub of fatuous lard. Well, there's no arguing there.
― Jazzbo, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:51 (sixteen years ago) link
Bobby Gillespie: "Gie' us a smile Van, go on, yer face is aye trippin' ye. The 'Gers are daein' awright noo wi' Big Watty back at the helm - 'zat no' enough tae cheer ye up?"
― Tom D., Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:54 (sixteen years ago) link
i find how assholish he apparently is part of the appeal, he seems like the least likeable major star like ever....yet he writes these really warm songs that are sort of intergenerational classics, it's odd....and onstage he has the whole kind of otis redding thing, real soul belting giving it all, etc, yet it doesn't seem warm, even during the big climaxes he doesn't seem to care about the crowd or trying to engage them, it's like he's got some personal little place he's trying to reach or something and fuck you if you don't get it.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:55 (sixteen years ago) link
I taped a King Biscuit concert of his, about 1991, off the radio. Unfortunately my boombox was wonky and recorded at the wrong speed. Consequently that was the only machine on which I could play that recording.
Van was, in my view, at the height of his mid-career powers, and he had an an excellent backing band. Basically the "Wavelength" album, plus the way he was performing his earlier material in exactly that moment.
Exquisite. Before that, he was underbaked. After that, too much. It was exactly right.
― don't let days go by, Listerine (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 13 November 2023 19:49 (five months ago) link
gotta love Vanlose Stairway
90s Van rules ok too, I have a particular weak spot for The Healing Game
― corrs unplugged, Monday, 13 November 2023 20:34 (five months ago) link
the wind in the willows…AND THE PIPER AT THE GATES OF DAWN
― brimstead, Monday, 13 November 2023 22:27 (five months ago) link
Van's pandemic turn has made it much harder for me to enjoy his work.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Tuesday, 14 November 2023 00:02 (five months ago) link
As someone suggested in another thread, I kind of pretend he's been dead since 2019 and indulge in the work of a man who (while still a colossal dick) hasn't gone all-in into vile conspiracy theories.
Similar to Eric Clapton (dead since the end of 1974) and I guess Kanye West (dead since the end of 2010) when I'm ready to listen to him again.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 01:00 (five months ago) link
Yeah bird I tuned Van out a long time ago. Pretending he died is perhaps the best way to enjoy his early work while ignoring his subsequent rancid dickishness.
― don't let days go by, Listerine (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 14 November 2023 02:00 (five months ago) link
I put Van Morrison into a Chinese translator and I feel like I'm going insane pic.twitter.com/0TuPUQKEb8— John Frankensteiner (@JFrankensteiner) November 24, 2023
― Portsmouth Bubblejet, Friday, 24 November 2023 12:54 (five months ago) link
New episode of the 500 Songs podcast is on Vanhttps://500songs.com/podcast/episode-170-astral-weeks-by-van-morrison/
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 24 November 2023 13:08 (five months ago) link
ooh interesting!
that chinese translation is wild
― corrs unplugged, Friday, 24 November 2023 13:23 (five months ago) link
Underappreciated track from otherwise nothing-special record, imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PghOffQ-BrI
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 22 April 2024 12:51 (one week ago) link