Melody Maker's review of Kula Shaker's "K"

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Man, if ONLY we still had an ILXor who was capable of starting Sleeper vs American rock band threads....

Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:49 (ten years ago) Permalink

Kula Shaker should be judged by the only criteria that matters, their melodies, which is were they fall short of - among others - Oasis by ripping off old Stone Roses songs and calling them their own.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:50 (ten years ago) Permalink

ripping off old Stone Roses songs

How dare they steal those original Roses tunes.

onimo, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:54 (ten years ago) Permalink

"...fashion journalist Alexis Petridis in The Guardian..."

Ha ha ha 10/10 Dom.

Oasis entire career has been based on lifting other bands' songs, Geir!

Pashmina, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:55 (ten years ago) Permalink

Oasis are lifting riffs, Stone Roses are lifting actual melodic lines. Important difference. "Into The Blue" is an entire lift of "Bye Bye Badmen". Oasis were only influenced by, say, the piano theme from "Imagine" without ever copying it note for note.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

Lots of hip-hop tunes are based upon lifting riffs or tunes from older tunes note for note though. Which is one of the reasons why hip-hop is inferior.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

Surely a great tune stays a great tune? In fact, copying an extant magical melidy is the best thing to do.

Raw Patrick, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

melody, obv.

Raw Patrick, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

Surely a great tune stays a great tune?

But when it is composed it is composed and it doesn't need to be recomposed.

It's better to compose a new tune in the exact same style, and chances are it may be a great tune too.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

Geir is on his hobby horse here and shouldn't be encouraged (I kinda thought he'd grown past some of these ideas but I guess getting misty-eyed for britpop has reawakened the zealot in him), but I can't help myself: Geir between the sort of "theft? tribute!" melodic cribbing that Oasis does and sampling, I know the latter seems more creative to me. Oasis picks your pocket and tries to look innocent; hip hop folds your dollar a half-dozen times and hands in back to you in a shape you wouldn't have guessed at. Lifting a riff honestly and recontextualizing it = writing; aping a style or two as Oasis did = pastiche.

J0hn D., Monday, 24 September 2007 12:30 (ten years ago) Permalink

Pastiche is musical genius.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:32 (ten years ago) Permalink

And a good tune shouldn't be changed or "shaped" it should be kept the way the composer intended it.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:33 (ten years ago) Permalink

And a good tune shouldn't be changed or "shaped" it should be kept the way the composer intended it.

most composers, including Beethoven, Chopin, and all the romantics you claim to like, disagree strongly with you on this point, as the use of a theme by another composer is a time- and tradition-honored practice; the only constant is that one does not keep the melody "the way the composer intended it," as to do so would be pointless. That is to say: most composers would say your assertion there is nonsense.

J0hn D., Monday, 24 September 2007 12:37 (ten years ago) Permalink

ban geir

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:41 (ten years ago) Permalink

but Oasis used the stolen melodies in a real kind of interesting way by bolting them to a shoegaze / drone rock non dynamic tempered with the first wave of over compression made them more than whatever parts they were a sum of. maybe. i wrote a proper piece about this, but it's bad form to link yr own pieces on ilx isn't it. it's like oasis changed the form but not the content or something.

acrobat, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:45 (ten years ago) Permalink

BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:47 (ten years ago) Permalink

i wrote a proper piece about this, but it's bad form to link yr own pieces on ilx isn't it

Let's hope no-one tries to do this on this thread

DJ Mencap, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:52 (ten years ago) Permalink

in all seriousness, ban geir

Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:54 (ten years ago) Permalink

Wellllllll...

Oasis reduced the whole of the alternate/indie sector to "top ten hits, anything else isn't good enough" and all the inventive / quirky / etc bedrock disappeared.

Mark G, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:55 (ten years ago) Permalink

He's still only 34? Fuck me.

His age hasn't prevented him from still talking bollocks though, I notice.

Ned Trifle II, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:56 (ten years ago) Permalink

bang eir

Pashmina, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

http://i10.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/a4/91/6908_1_b.JPG

Mark G, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

It is strange how disagreeing with the typical ILM-opinion that "hip-hop rules, "white" music sucks" can stir so much emotion.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

the typical ILM-opinion that "hip-hop rules, "white" music sucks"

yr evidences, let me see them

Just got offed, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:37 (ten years ago) Permalink

but Oasis used the stolen melodies

Oasis didn't steal melodies. They pastiched styles. Which is a lot better and actually a sign of musical genius.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:38 (ten years ago) Permalink

Do you like Neil Innes?

Mark G, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:38 (ten years ago) Permalink

[It is strange how disagreeing with the typical ILM-opinion that "hip-hop rules, "white" music sucks" can stir so much emotion.

-- Geir Hongro, Monday, September 24, 2007 2:35 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

no emotion here, chief.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:39 (ten years ago) Permalink

xpost (or, actually, better response = )

Talent Borrows, Genius Steals.

Mark G, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:40 (ten years ago) Permalink

Hip-hop and house/electronica was about to destroy music, and Britpop was needed to re-estalish the tune ass all that mattered again.

http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/original/shock.jpg

tissp, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:44 (ten years ago) Permalink

I take in then Geir that you have no response to the use of themes by other composers in classical music

kinda figured as much

J0hn D., Monday, 24 September 2007 13:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

i regret reviving this thread.

fucking geir.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:48 (ten years ago) Permalink

dude, such threads give oxygen to the fires of ignorance, bigotry and stupidity that ultimately consume all of geir's arguments, don't sweat it.

stevie, Monday, 24 September 2007 13:52 (ten years ago) Permalink

LOL, groundhog day.

Pashmina, Monday, 24 September 2007 14:10 (ten years ago) Permalink

The point in case here is the reviewer should never have reviewed that album at all. If the reviewer dislikes then entire idea of a bunch of white guys with guitars making old-fashioned tuneful music influenced by 60s and 70s music, then let someone else review them instead, and let this guy stick to his hip-hip or house instead. Those of us you like tuneful music aren't interested in the opinions of those who don't.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 19:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

let this guy stick to his hip-hip

...hooray?

Ned Raggett, Monday, 24 September 2007 19:21 (ten years ago) Permalink

Geirhog Day

Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 19:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

I like how Neil is getting it in the neck for dissing "a bunch of white guys with guitars making old-fashioned tuneful music influenced by 60s and 70s music" and also for liking Monster Magnet

DJ Mencap, Monday, 24 September 2007 19:48 (ten years ago) Permalink

no way, geir: half the fun of music reviewing is watching someone tear chunks out of an album they were always going to hate. and half the fun of writing reviews is finding new ways to hone yr invective. in fact: i'd argue that people should only review things they don't think they'll like. (well, okay: i wouldn't really. but i might in this instance.)

also, as i always like to point out at times like this: following the legendary 0/10 review of "hippopotamomus" in the NME, i rushed out to buy it.

grimly fiendish, Monday, 24 September 2007 19:50 (ten years ago) Permalink

The point about reading a review is finding out "Is it likely that I will like this album or not?". If the album is in a genre you don't like, then you skip the review and don't read it at all. And then, if the album is in a genre you like, then you expect the reviewer to like the same genre, and tell you whether this is a good album judging from that genre's set of quality criteria.

That is: Kula Shaker should have been judged by their tunes and their musicianship, not by their "originality", as none of their fans were looking for "original" or "groundbreaking" music anyway.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 19:59 (ten years ago) Permalink

b-b-but ... if i had cloth ears and liked that kinda stuff, i'd still know from NK's review that i was just gonna love the patronising retro stylings of mid-90s kula shaker. just as i knew i'd love that momus album (and did).

that's why reviews are bylined: it's one person's view, not a publication's, and over time readers might or might not come to identify with -- or maybe loathe! -- certain writers.

also: i read reviews of all genres. that's one of the ways i started, er, listening to a lot of different music -- stuff i thought i'd hate. hellfire, it was reading a piece in (cough) "the word" that made me think, right, i'm going to give fuckin' dylan a try (qv thread somewhere else on new answers right now). seriously, dude, you should try it :/

grimly fiendish, Monday, 24 September 2007 20:09 (ten years ago) Permalink

et bloody cetera ad infinitum.

Mark G, Monday, 24 September 2007 21:18 (ten years ago) Permalink

b-b-but ... if i had cloth ears and liked that kinda stuff, i'd still know from NK's review that i was just gonna love the patronising retro stylings of mid-90s kula shaker.

Then you wouldn't know if they were good or bad, as that reviewer obviously would have slaughtered whoever tried the same thing, regardless of the quality of the songs.

For instance: Oasis and Stereophonics are doing virtually the same thing. But Oasis have written a bunch of truly magnificent melodies, while Stereophonics' melodies are mostly just crap, performed by a crap singer with an extremely annoying voice. That distinction will disappear in a review written by a reviewer who hates even the good stuff within that genre.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 21:21 (ten years ago) Permalink

Does that mean that you can pretty much STFU about any and all music that isn't white-boy-melodies-r-us?

onimo, Monday, 24 September 2007 22:36 (ten years ago) Permalink

That distinction will disappear in a review written by a reviewer who hates even the good stuff within that genre

yes, absolutely: and i have been that reviewer. but then i'd far, far rather read someone monstering oasis/stereophonics/kula shaker/etc than i would listen to any of their music :)

i guess my point is that there's still journalistic validity in a completely biased review -- as long as it's entertaining and not just bile for the sake of it. (although, where kula shaker are concerned, i'd forgive anyone for bile for the sake of it.)

grimly fiendish, Monday, 24 September 2007 22:49 (ten years ago) Permalink

(reads this entire thread)

Yawn. ILX has gotten so boring lately.

Mr. Snrub, Monday, 24 September 2007 23:00 (ten years ago) Permalink

sign my petition to get a Geir Hongro quote into Bartlett's

ciderpress, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 01:40 (ten years ago) Permalink

i guess my point is that there's still journalistic validity in a completely biased review -- as long as it's entertaining and not just bile for the sake of it.

If I wrote a really entertaining and very biased review, slaughtering an otherwise critically acclaimed hip-hop album because it didn't have any great newly composed tunes and had way too little melody and way too much rhythm, then it would be really great and useful? For hip-hop fans even?

Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 09:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

High time we made a stand and shook up
The views of the common man
DJ'ss the man we love the most
Could you be, could you be squeaky clean
And smash any hope of democracy?
As the headline says youre free to choose
Theres an egg on your face and mud on your shoes
One of these days theyre gonna call it the blues

And anything is possible when your'e
Sowing the seeds of love
Anything is possible
Sowing the seeds of love

I spy tears in their eyes
They look to the skies for some kind
Of divine intervention
Food goes to waste!
So nice to eat, so nice to taste
Politician grannie with you
r high ideals
Have you no idea how the majority feels?
So without love and a promised land
Were fools to the rules of a government plan
Kick out the style: bring back the jam

Anything is possible when...

Sowing the seeds
The birds and the bees
My girlfriend and me in love
Feel the pain
Talk about it
If youre a worried man
Then shout about it
Open hearts
Feel about it
Open minds
Think about it
Everyone
Read about it
Everyone
Scream about it!
Everyone
Everyone
Everyone
Read about it
Read about it
Read it in the books in the crannies
And the nooks there are books to read

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 09:58 (ten years ago) Permalink

depends on your definition of 'entertaining' really.

To take your point slightly, what you really want in this situation is someone who can say "I really like white guitar based melodic poo, so understand me chillun, when I say that this Kula Shaker album is a pile of crap and even Cast are better"

sort of thing.. right?

(post certified sarcasm-free)

Mark G, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 10:01 (ten years ago) Permalink

To take your point slightly, what you really want in this situation is someone who can say "I really like white guitar based melodic poo, so understand me chillun, when I say that this Kula Shaker album is a pile of crap and even Cast are better"

sort of thing.. right?

Yes. (Except Cast isn't better) ;)

Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 10:09 (ten years ago) Permalink

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/PotKettle_small.jpg

roffle roffle, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

I couldn't find a .jpg of three pots and one kettle, sorry.

roffle roffle, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

TS mr idée fixe vs the holy trinity of lazy, adolescent snark.

(ha, xposts)

Pashmina, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

That looks like a Yello video that never was.

NickB, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:24 (ten years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Personally I think their comeback album is indeed better than any of their two 90s albums. They have stripped away all of the "indie" elements and gone fully fledged hippie-pop with quite a hint of 70s softrock/pomp pop. Which fits them greatly.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 01:55 (ten years ago) Permalink

I like "Tattva."

Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 02:28 (ten years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqncFetwku0

Yeah, they sucked

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 23:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

I'm happy to say that KulaShaker never graced my stereo - I thought they were bollocks.

this DG guy OTM

DG, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 23:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

Mr Snrub OTM 2 posts ago

Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 23:30 (nine years ago) Permalink


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