SHISTY - "I Luv U"

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (170 of them)

next someone will say it's pop music

― sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:46 (twenty years ago) link

i think the problem is that a lot of people have heard dizzee rascal in isolation from the rest of the garage/grime scene and lump, in the same way indie kids would call the streets garage

― sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:48 (twenty years ago) link

exactly, americans particularly...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:51 (twenty years ago) link

haah - so comparison's between this and the roxanne sagas is apples and oranges?

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:52 (twenty years ago) link

meanwhile, one of you should really tell dizzee he ain't making hip-hop before he does another interview

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:53 (twenty years ago) link

actually i quite like listening to it in a sort of masochistic way, but mainly just for that laugh.

― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:01 (twenty years ago) link

"if we say it's this or that, then that settles it"

Awesome! Hey you guys: The White Stripes are gabba

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:02 (twenty years ago) link

Jesse Colin Young is NYHC

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:03 (twenty years ago) link

i reckon americans might well believe that last statement john...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:03 (twenty years ago) link

But in your original post you were pretty much doing the same thing bludd

― sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:04 (twenty years ago) link

the point being Dave that Dizzee may be a new direction in hiphop or a new mixture of elements but it's still hiphop, and saying so doesn't justify your hauling out the tired old "Americans will never understand!" bit

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:05 (twenty years ago) link

haha - "Americans will never understand our version of their music!"

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:07 (twenty years ago) link

the thing is i haven't heard an argument for it being hip hop apart from "he wears american clothes" and "he raps".

― sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:07 (twenty years ago) link

"Those yanks! They wouldn't know hiphop if it came 'round for tea!"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:08 (twenty years ago) link

hiphop and roxanne comparisons are valid but useless. unless you have a uh, personal interest in asserting US primacy over everything? otherwise like sterling said: you are dragging. everything. down

yeah sean you are so fucking REAL nigga! suck a dick, toy. obv feminism is not my #1 criteria in liking records but this is an answer record, a reinterpretation and ok 'feminism' is a huge maybe misleading reduction of what shisty's doing but i just dont think this enlightens dizzie's complicit angry original any further. as an 'isolated' track like dave sez i think it's a A BIT DUFF. ok!

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:10 (twenty years ago) link

one d in 'bludd', blud

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:11 (twenty years ago) link

Sean does one really have to make the case for thirty trumpets, ten cornets, ten trombones and three tubas being a brass band? Dizzee's rapping over beats, that they're skittery beats doesn't make it So Completely Revolutionary That We Cannot Call It Hiphop! Hiphop's a HUGE culture, room for all manner of stuff. I think the issue is that English Diz fans would prefer to think of him of wholly "ours" and not part of an essentially American tradition.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:11 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, I'm not saying uk gutter grime guh-guh-garage garridge gay-raj is "just hip-hop": I agree it's 'something new/something exciting', I'm partially convinced it's the 'something new/something exciting' (I'd blame jess and simon r., but really I blame dem lott and whoever I've downloaded garage comps off of soulseek from)(er, spencer then), but to pretend it isn't, in any way whatsoever, nuh-uh. nuh. uh., no siree bob england's hip-hop is absurd.

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:12 (twenty years ago) link

What Blount said.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:13 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, I love american hip-hop (love african hip-hop, which sounds alot more different than american hip-hop to my ears than garage)(hit or miss on italian hip-hop), but one of the thing's that draws me to uk garage, and didn't draw me to, er, earlier english hip-hop (ie. betty boo) is that it is it's own thing, isn't "just" hip-hop made by english people. it's something new, but let's not refuse to connect dots for the sake of her majesty the queen.

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:15 (twenty years ago) link

"Dizzee's rapping over beats, that they're skittery beats doesn't make it So Completely Revolutionary That We Cannot Call It Hiphop"

mc top buzz is hip hop?

sizzla?

what is 'rapping'?

― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:18 (twenty years ago) link

and agreed this record doesn't touch the original (answer records either fall way short or blow the original away - not alot of middle ground), but I'm such a huge fan of answer records (I put "Shorty Swings Both Ways" on a "whose ten is this?") that this record was spotted many points before I even heard the thing.

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:20 (twenty years ago) link

what are beats?
what is music?
what is sound?

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:20 (twenty years ago) link

I mean if someone release a record called "Right Hurr" right now I can guarantee you I'd download it stat

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:21 (twenty years ago) link

all dancehall/garage/hardcore = hip hop ambrose coz america = fount of all musical innovation donchaknow...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:27 (twenty years ago) link

right, that's what anyone on this thread said

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:29 (twenty years ago) link

unless you wanna argue the diff between uk garage and us hip-hop is uk garage is "more" influenced by dancehall (in which case read more billboard)

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:30 (twenty years ago) link

just like anyone said english people won't call garage music hip hop due to nationalistic fervour?

― sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:31 (twenty years ago) link

seriously j blount, is someone mumbling 'oh my gosh, orange squash' over some hyper pitched vocals and piano lines hiphop?

shurely john's definition is a wee bit all-encompassing?

― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:32 (twenty years ago) link

anyhow, go ahead, the brits invented everything, america's had no impact on world pop culture, when analysing dizzee rascal it's important to ignore his music, his interviews, his wardrobe, his videos, him him him

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:33 (twenty years ago) link

" 'oh my gosh, orange squash' over some hyper pitched vocals and piano lines hiphop?" - is the new outkast hip-hop?

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:34 (twenty years ago) link

"part of an essentially american tradition" = wrong. he's part of a british movement the draws on hip hop, dancehall reggae (to a far greater degree) and a variety of club-based dance music. this pervasive idea that all british music is beholden to older US versions just winds me up. it also horrifies me that dizzee will be pushed in the states as hip-hop when there is so much more to his work, plus evaluating him in terms of hip hop only gives people who don't and can't understand his music a stick to beat him with (it doesn't sound like Luidacris = it's shit).
a small afterthought: roots manuva, rodney p, estelle, wildflower et al = hip hop
dizzee = not

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:35 (twenty years ago) link

"part of an essentially american tradition" = wrong. he's part of a british movement the draws on hip hop, dancehall reggae (to a far greater degree) and a variety of club-based dance music. this pervasive idea that all british music is beholden to older US versions just winds me up. it also horrifies me that dizzee will be pushed in the states as hip-hop when there is so much more to his work, plus evaluating him in terms of hip hop only gives people who don't and can't understand his music a stick to beat him with (it doesn't sound like Ludacris = it's shit).
a small afterthought: roots manuva, rodney p, estelle, wildflower et al = hip hop
dizzee = not

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:35 (twenty years ago) link

james i am totally in agreement about hiphop's influence but it's a really facile point and anyway to backpedal and say that you've been gently merely reminding blinkered englishmen rabidly in denial 'pretending it isn't', without any personal dismissive reductive pleasure is taking the piss

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:37 (twenty years ago) link

how is there so much more to boy in da corner than there was to stankonia?

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:38 (twenty years ago) link

u tell him chip bludd

― sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:38 (twenty years ago) link

it doesn't sound like Ludacris = it's shit???

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:39 (twenty years ago) link

but of course i wouldn't know, i've only been part of this whole thing for over a decade...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:41 (twenty years ago) link

i mean you admit "it's not just hiphop" so why not talk about that instead rather than impotently sniping away

furthermore if the english here have been exaggerating ukg's newness it'll be in reaction to you more than anything i hope... if stelfox really believes hiphop has absolutely nothing to do with it then i wash my hands of him

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:42 (twenty years ago) link

Chip - I've yet to post a reductive thing bout Dizzee (nothing but bigups here) but I do hafta laff at a Britishpress that's all "he's our Tupac" one minute but cries foul if you say "he's your hip-hop". it's just more "we haddem first/you won't understand/you can't understand" indieisms.

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:43 (twenty years ago) link

haha xpost with "listen junior"!!!

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:43 (twenty years ago) link

blount's English rap = Betty Boo hurt me in my head/heart. Dizzee Rascal strikes me as having a clear connection to the likes of Gunshot, London Posse and the Ragga Twins - the whole point is its no longer JUST hip hop, JUST ragga, JUST garage. usually i am cool with arguing about genre definitions but its getting ridiculous with this shit - hey i've got a new one that just rolls off the tongue - raprage

same songs, same rhymes - new beats tho

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:43 (twenty years ago) link

that said, my original post had more to do with whether analysing/judging an answer record by its feminist intent/content might - might - be missing the point.

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:44 (twenty years ago) link

Is that the dude from Digital Underground as one of the male voices on the Sheisty track? I sure wish it were.

I don't see why Dizzee has to be hip hop, unless he starts saying that he's explicitly working within hip hop. Of course, he's fucked everyone off by saying he's not garage, while he comes out of a UKG tradition, so maybe it all is up for grabs. But for hip hop to automatically have some claim on what he's doing, with no attempt to account for the regional specificity of it, seems a bit like rock journalists starting to subsume hip hop as a part of the rock canon (which is indeed happening).

While hip hop is no longer wedded to the the rather mono-stylistic boom-bip template that it was for much of the 90s, it seems to me that the rhythmic specificity of Dizzee et al would keep it within the UKG genre, at least until it mutates further. When jungle MCs rap over beats, does that make it hip hop?

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:46 (twenty years ago) link

is it ok to call "return of the mack" r&b?

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:47 (twenty years ago) link

why do i like Shisty's 'I Luv U'? - because of the DIY ethic, because of the 'response' record concept, because she seems cool, because the guys voices are funny and the lyrics sound - its a fun messy slanger of a tune. Dizzee still wins tho.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:48 (twenty years ago) link

i'm not saying there's more to dizzee than there is to hip hop as a genre. i'm saying there is more to be taken into account of when evaluating his music that than a such a blinkered viewpoint ("without the good old us of a those poor backward brits would never have anything of worth") allows. hell, we got no culture here that exists outside of that which you see fit to magnanimously give us have we? i give up - james you obviously know far more about this than me

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:48 (twenty years ago) link

and it kinda does a disservice to a musical culture that has been rapidly progressing for 12 or so years now

― sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:50 (twenty years ago) link

dave are you even reading my posts?

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:51 (twenty years ago) link

and i've never said it's got nothing to do with hip hop... look at the posts above (you can still was your hands of me if you like chip - i'll sleep at night) but that doesn't mean it is hip hop.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:52 (twenty years ago) link

Skipping 70 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

also tom, the album is a "grower"...i was distinctly underwhelmed the first few times too...i listened to it this past sunday, however, and it sounded fucking great (and this is after i wrote 2500 words about it [which i somehow managed to cut down to 900 for print.])

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:04 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah I have to admit sitting on a tube train in London is DESPITE BEING ITS PROPER CONTEXT YOU YANK KNOW-NOTHINGS perhaps not the best circs for a first listen.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:54 (twenty years ago) link

Maybe you're supposed to listen to it drunk? (I liked it well enough on my one listen, haven't been compelled to relisten.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:03 (twenty years ago) link

I think I meant re: UK hip hop that whether it's great or not or whether its chart or undie, it's still never going to have the same *impact* that dancehall (or potentially garage rap) will - it's still hip hop. It's doing better to assert itself as a force these days, but only in much the same way that any regional variant of hip hop might.

The value of a semantic separation from hip hop is the chance to form or retain separate core musical values - see for example Miami Bass, which couldn't really have developed the way it did if it had come under the umbrella of hip hop. Of course, its development filtered back into hip hop via dirty south/bounce, but would that shift have seemed as exciting as it had if there wasn't that level of distance and separation beforehand?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 18 July 2003 04:02 (twenty years ago) link

i hereby renounce my anglophilia

this coming from a man that thinks, and i quote, that we're "a funny little island"!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 18 July 2003 08:12 (twenty years ago) link

and if you think having a thing for cathy dennis is nuts, well, you're gonna love this one. for a while i lived in a town called norwich. it's a bit like the english version of poughkeepsie (not that i've ever been there but it sounds like a dud place to live). this is where cathy dennis is from. my friend was also a big fan. it was his 21st birthday and there was a huge display of cathy dennis stuff in the local hmv including a life-size cardboard cutout of her. i went to the shop, explained the situation and they lat me take cardboard cathy home. i gave her to rob on the day of his birthday. he proceeded to fold her into a sitting position and drove around town with her in the front seat of his car for about a month...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:33 (twenty years ago) link

and then, he ditched her, like all the others...Cardboard Cathy hit the bottle pretty bad but now works in the Lowestoft branch of Aldi.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:40 (twenty years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Shisty's still good.

― jadrenos (jadrenos), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 15:16 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...

SHYSTIE
http://www.rwdmag.com/gallery/images/120x120/shys1197rwd.jpg

did anyone buy the 12 of i luv u?

"A whole album is in the pipeline. The b-side to ‘I Love You’ was produced by the Streets and I’m working with him again, as well as going on tour supporting him, I’m really looking forward to that."

― sean., Friday, 3 October 2003 19:01 (twenty years ago) link

hey, wow!

(also: maybe this has been mentioned before, but i was reading an interview w dizzee somewhere and he said he almost titled the album "dizzee new heights" - maybe just an obvious pun but maybe an explicit streets reference?)

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 3 October 2003 19:08 (twenty years ago) link

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.