Israel to World: "Suck It."

You clearly don't live in the US

lets talk about the drugs the US gave to central and South Americans a few decades ago...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willowbrook_State_School

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/12/17/121217fa_fact_khatchadourian

xpost State sponsored eugenics is a pretty uncommon thing. We've given all sorts of shit to all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons, but I don't think the US government was ever out to eradicate a people.

I would much more easily believe an accusation of medical ethical infringements done on small groups in limited studies; at a particular institute, or in a particular small city, or on a unit of soldiers. I find it much harder to believe as a broad secret racial eugenics program.

Yeah, that's stupid (not being sarcastic). Why would Israel invite - airlifted, even - in a whole load of immigrants just to try to decimate their numbers? Assuming any of this is accurate, one of your other hypotheses is likely true, or that there was some rogue racist agent.

I pretty much cosign with everything written here: http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2013/01/did-israelis-force-contraception-on.html

The idea that doctors - especially in doctors who willingly travel to Ethiopia, people who would be among the most dedicated medical professionals on the planet - would conspire to effectively sterilize black women is simply not plausible.

What you must believe to believe this is just. idk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot

My guess - and it is only a guess - is that Ethiopian women were generally enthusiastic about the idea of birth control. And as Dr. Hodes says, the idea of injectionable contraception was appealing to them - because they don't have to tell their husbands.

This is the key to understanding the story. The Ethiopian husbands would generally be averse to their wives taking birth control, so they must do it in secret - and the Depo-Provera is by far the best method to keep their husbands from knowing. They simply tell them that they were receiving inoculations or some other excuse.

where is the blogger getting this from

if a "guess" is "key to understanding the story" im not really inclined to give it any more credibility than those "35 anonymous interviews"

I don't get that the fact they would travel to Ethiopia makes it less plausible if their purpose is to sterilise black people. Again, I do think there's something bogus about this.

It's his theory max. I don't know what explains these accusations. I just know that Haaretz's explanation does not make any sense.

Also hard to look to the "elder of Ziyon" for objectivity, but maybe there's something in the name I don't get.

I think the points he makes (with the exception of his theory of the case) are compelling enough that it shouldn't matter who is arguing them.

The exact quote caught my eye too, Max. That theory literally comes out of nowhere, is based on nothing, and is far less credible than what Mordy already dismissed as not-credible.

Like, he could have at least invented an anonymous sources. "Some people say ..."

It's a theory I've seen around. I haven't seen anything compelling to suggest it and haven't been able to do any research that revealed anything beyond Depo being very popular in Ethiopia.

He was theorizing. He's a blogger. It seems honestly speculative to me.

Where is everyone getting the idea that Depo is very popular in Ethiopia?

Maybe this has more information: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3583408

If someone wants to hunt up their alumni jstor account.

Mordy, your arguments were better than this. When the blogger strays into that kind of speculation it lacks credibility the same way aspects of the original story do.

No, it's worse!

I'd try to get that jstor article, but the US might threaten me with 35 years in prison.

Seems relevant too: http://www.jstor.org/stable/27716220

Depo-Provera: Ethical Issues in Its Testing and Distribution
Malcolm Potts and John M. Paxman
Journal of Medical Ethics
Vol. 10, No. 1 (Mar., 1984), pp. 9-20

We've (the US) been pushing birth control in Africa for a long time. It has a huge correlation to improvements in quality of life. (Melinda Gates big project atm too iirc?)

Maybe that's just secret eugenics too, tho.

Here's a copy of the first one: https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/4989/1/rh05036.pdf

oh shit

Because contraceptives may introduce social discord, leading at times to intimate partners’ violence amongst African couples, women of low bargaining powers often resort to family planning methods that are suitable to covert use.30-31 Women can take injections of depo-provera while visiting a health facility and remain protected against unwanted pregnancies for three months. This may be done without their husband’s knowledge and without the bother of having to remember to take the pill or to undergo clinical procedures that are involved when opting for implants or intrauterine devices. Consequently, a general pattern that has been observed in the contraceptive method mix in sub-Saharan Africa and elsewhere in the developing world is the predominance of injectables.32-34 The Ethiopian DHS data analysed here indicate clearly that the ratio of pill users to injectable users is 1:1.2 nationally, while the corresponding ratio is 1:2 for CBRHS areas, according to the CPS results (Figure 1).

I'd take issue with the nebulous notion of the US pushing birth control in Africa.

yo c'mon, give me some credit for digging that up

Yeah, that's mostly condoms, and mostly to prevent AIDS, no?

And by "prevent AIDS" I mean "prevent African babies."

Read the paragraph I just posted!

Man, if you hate your husband so much that you need to secretly sneak out and get birth control shots, I feel for ya.

Bawah Ayaga Agula, Patricia Akweongo, Ruth Simmons and James Phillips. Women’s fears and men’s anxieties: the impact of family planning on gender relations in northern Ghana. Stud Fam Plann 1999; 30(1): 54–66.

Shah I. Comparative analysis of contracep- tive method choice. In: Proceeding of the Demographic and Health Surveys World Conference, 5–7 August 1991, Washington DC, 617–625.

Ross J, K Hardee, E Mumford and S Eid. 34. Contraceptive method choice in developing countries. Inter Fam Plann Persp 2002; 28(1): 32–40.

Magadi M and S Curtis. Trends and deter- minants of contraceptive method choice in Kenya. Stud Fam Plann 2003; 34(3): 149– 159.

Some follow-ups for the truly passionate.

Um, or maybe marital rape is still accepted culturally there? xp

Apparently it is true that injectable birth control is the most popular form of contraception in sub-Saharan Africa. See for instance:

The most popular contraceptive for women in eastern and southern Africa, a hormone shot given every three months...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/health/04hiv.html?_r=0

There is also at least anecdotal evidence that women there often obtain it without their husbands' knowledge or consent. See for instance:

Speaking at the recent London Summit on Family Planning, (Melinda) Gates had returned from a visit to sub-Saharan Africa with stories of women who snuck away from their husbands to obtain birth control shots at a local clinic, only to be turned away as the clinic had run out of the product.

http://www.globalization101.org/the-battle-over-birth-control-for-developing-nations/

Whether or not the story out if Israel is true, this stuff is at least honestly educational. I mean, it makes sense

btw, if you don't know a lot about the huge positive affects of making contraception and family planning available to women in third world countries, it's worth looking at. incredible results.

Oh, that I know, I just didn't know about depo specifically.

Yeah, I think a lot of people knew that which is why there was much protestation when W wanted aid to be conditional upon a lack of contraceptives.

ok, i really only mentioned it bc you said "I'd take issue with the nebulous notion of the US pushing birth control in Africa."

Well yeah I said "nebulous' because there was a very recent time where America didn't want to push it.

Governmentally, I should say not private.

"pushing birth control in Africa" just read as too nebulously in line with intimations of eugenics, which is why I bristled.

Well that's an issue as well, it I was just wondering how anyone could blithely skate by such a huge debate.

I've run out of free Haaretz articles for the month but this looks relevant:

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/routine-emergencies/ethiopian-women-and-birth-control-when-a-scoop-becomes-a-smear.premium-1.500341

The story of the dramatic drop in the birthrates of the Ethiopian Israeli community over the past decade and why it happened was a story that needed to be told. Those on the ground who work with the Ethiopian community who first observed and researched the phenomenon and Gal Gabai, the excellent television journalist whose show “Vacuum,” broke the story to the Israeli public, deserve credit for pulling the story out of the realm of rumor and shadows.

However - as in the game of telephone, when the more a story is repeated, the more warped and distorted it becomes - the international coverage of this scandal is transforming a tale insensitivity, cultural condescension and, yes, perhaps a certain level of racism, into some kind of villainous genocidal plot of sterilization aimed at ethnic and racial cleansing.

What the original television program uncovered is an insensitivity to a traditional culture and imposing Western norms in what likely began as a well-meaning attempt to help families make an easier adjustment to the shock that was ahead of them when they moved to Israel and once they arrived. The stories women told painted a picture of being coaxed and strongly convinced that they should subject themselves to a Depo-Provera birth control shot every three months, without being offered other methods of family planning. They also recounted being told in educational workshops that Israelis had “small families” and that having many children in Israel would “make their life difficult.” Some said they were led to believe they would not be permitted to emigrate if they did not submit to the shots, others said that their objections to receiving them were ignored. Some women said they weren’t aware the shots were birth control - they thought they were vaccinations, and others said their complaints about disturbing side effects were ignored.

I found a cache'd version. Here's some more:

Gamzu’s action took place after a group of six human rights organizations requested that the Ministry “adopt a number of steps to ensure the practice will not continue” including “making enquiries about the medical condition of each woman and whether the drug is suitable for her circumstances, not to provide any injections without informing the women of the possible side-effects of the drug and providing information about alternative contraceptive methods” and “that a note be included in the patient’s medical records recording that conversation took place” and urged Gamzu “consider examining the background to the practice and to collect updated figures on the use of the contraceptive.”

It is was an appropriate action to take and his quick response was in order, so as to bring birth control in the Ethiopian community should be in line with the rest of Israeli women, making them in control of their decisions with full information as to the alternatives.

But the story has taken on a life of its own internationally. The words “forced” and “coercion” are being thrown around in the international coverage. Images of Mengele-level persecution of clueless, helpless victims being marched by force from camps to clinics to receive their injections have been conjured up, as the story has travelled from the Israeli media to the national mainstream media, to international and niche publications. The headlines run from the oversimplified to deliberately twisted:

Israel admits forcing birth control shots on Ethiopian women

Israel: Discrimination against Ethiopian Jews

Israel coerced Ethiopian women into taking contraceptive jabs

Israel Admits “Shameful” Birth Control Drug Injected in “Unaware” Ethiopian Jews

The most hostile coverage refers inaccurately to “sterilization” - conveniently ignoring the fact that Depo-Provera is a three-month birth control injection, for which women must voluntarily go to a clinic to receive the shots. It is insulting to the intelligence of Ethiopian women to believe that they did this for years at a time against their will. Certainly, if there was a nefarious plot to stop them from having babies, there would have been a more efficient way to do it.

I believe the women who told their stories to Gal Gabbai. I also believe that the vast majority of the Ethiopian women who received Depo-Provera were aware it was birth control and received it willingly, wanting to be in control of deciding when to get pregnant. And some of them - it is unclear how many - preferred being injected at a clinic rather than having to take pills daily in the presence of other family members - husbands or mothers or in-laws - who might disapprove of that decision. I also believe that those who did not want to receive the shots and truly wanted to become pregnant were smart enough to stop receiving them. At least some of the drop in these birthrate is attributable to access to birth control and control over their childbearing that these women wanted.