Depression and what it's really like

Sorry, you touched a nerve. Nothing personal.

Natalie, have you been to see your doctor about it yet? I'd say definitely do that first if you're open to the idea (helped *a lot* when my wife had post-natal depression btw)

i think the nice thing about a therapist is that you're paying them to listen to you talk about what's wrong (& of course hopefully help you out). It's not like a friend, where you have to consider whether or not you're making them uncomfortable or expecting too much of them or you'd actually rather hear about what's going on in their life. Going to a therapist is useful even if you're just trying to work something very temporary out of your system: there is nothing to do there but talk. I know you're not supposed to think of it this way but sometimes i sort of see the ~therapeutic space~ as the place where you talk about it so you can stay shut up about it everywhere else.

xps, No I wasn't thinking. I have no idea what the situation is like in Belgium for instance. I'm just a bit...er...enthusiastic about it because it did me so much good. Continues to do so, too. I get a bit carried away.

If cost is an issue then look into CBT, it's remarkably quick - ten sessions max on the NHS - and has really done wonders for me, just in terms of getting out of the mental rut I was in, transforming my attitude, restoring confidence etc.

Cost is not that big of an issue but, well, finding a good therapist is. Belgium has good healthcare. I think I could check with my doctor first and then it would be even cheaper? I had one but he ignored my cries for help in regard to my panic attacks. Really strange. I wanted to ask: "Why don't you HEAR me when I talk about my panic attacks?" Instead I just gave up and stopped going. I'm not sure if I need to. I have the (wrong) idea that this is me, this is how I feel at times so why bother with addressing this "problem". I also feel I'm a bit silly for being this way because I simply don't have anything to complain about. Yes, I know, that's not really the issue. I also don't like talking about it cause I just start crying. IF I don't, then I can just pretend it's not here/there/anywhere.

I don't think it's postnatal depression unless hahaha it extends to 16 months after giving birth. haha

I dunno, it can last for quite a while. But whatever it is, I'd say it's still worth giving your doctor a go first.

If your doctor refuses to listen to you when you bring up panic attacks, then that's cause to find a new doctor. A good doctor pays attention to their patient's mental state of health, as well as physical. If you told your doctor that you were having sharp pains in your head, and he just ignored you, instead of sending to check you for migraines, would you keep going to him? Why should mental health be any different? Panic attacks are a symptom - they're a sign that the mind is in distress and needs some kind of attention. You can't just ignore them like that, if you're a doctor.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary

kinda inneresting

That is really really really interesting and also reminds me to post this point from an article in Discover Magazine called "The Seven Deadly Sins" (sadly I don't think the art is avail online):

Most of us perceive ourselves as slightly smarter, funnier, more talented, and better-looking than average. These rose-colored glasses are apparently important to mental health, the psychological immune system that protects us from despair. "Those who see themselves as they truly are -- not so funny, a bad driver, overweight -- have a greater chance of being diagnosed with clinical depression," says Julian Paul Keenan, director of the cognitive imagine laboratory and professor of psychology at Montclair State University in New Jersey.

For most of us, it takes less mental energy to puff ourselves up than to think critically about our own abilities. In one recent neuroimaging study by blah blah in Japan, volunteers who imagined themselves winning a prize or trouncing an opponent showed less activation in brain regions associated with introspection and self-conscious thought than people induced to feel negative emotions such as embarrassment.

In one recent neuroimaging study by blah blah in Japan

...by who?

Oh fine. It's a long description and I was typing it out by hand. Gawd.

Hidehiko Takahashi of the National Institute of Radiological Sciences in Japan.

Those who see themselves as they truly are -- not so funny, a bad driver, overweight

thanks for your opinion julian

lol @ "blah blah"

xpost -- Haha, no worries, I just thought this was a copy/paste from an online article and I was boggling a bit.

"Prof. Blah, well known for his self-deprecation..."

i'm not that great of a driver, tevs

No, as I already said, the damn article ISN'T AVAILABLE ONLINE.

When one considers all the evidence, depression seems less like a disorder where the brain is operating in a haphazard way, or malfunctioning. Instead, depression seems more like the vertebrate eye—an intricate, highly organized piece of machinery that performs a specific function.

ehhhh......

I don't know about that guy, but my eye is invertebrate.

i think he's talking about the dude from korn's mic stand

Most of us perceive ourselves as slightly smarter, funnier, more talented, and better-looking than average.

So most people are basically all running around thinking they are better than the other? That's funny. Me, I belong in the group prone to depression, I guess, or rather I think I'm pretty darn average to below average.

Keenan is also using transcranial magnetic stimulation to disrupt deliberate self-deprecation -- the type of unctuous, ingratiating behavior that seems humble but is actually arrogance in disguise. Patterns of brain activation during self-deprecation are fundamentally the same as those during self-deceptive pride, Keenan is finding. Both are forms of one-upmanship. "They're in the same location and seem to serve the same purpose: putting oneself ahead in society," he says.

When one considers all the evidence, depression seems less like a disorder where the brain is operating in a haphazard way, or malfunctioning. Instead, depression seems more like the vertebrate eye—an intricate, highly organized piece of machinery that performs a specific function.

ehhhh......

I don't see anything wrong with the analogy fwiw

as someone who has been a loved one to depressed ppl i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the analogy but it's just kinda ehhhhhhh

don't know what actual depressed ppl might say fwiw

it kinda depends on how you define "malfunctioning" ...

i guess all i mean is when my dad was really depressed if someone had told me his depression was "an intricate, highly organized piece of machinery that performs a specific function" i would have probably assaulted them.

a parasite can also be defined as such ...

yeah i totally get this desc

i dont think call all destroyer doesnt "get" the description

shut up max

no YOU

^^ this what depression is really like

reading these last few posts has been depressing

Going on a pathetic archive.org binge, looking up friends webpages from high school, and somehow ended up at a photoagallery from a few weeks ago of a friend who just got married, one of my very best friends from back in the day. He looks so happy with his bf (I guess his husband now), I have so few real friends anymore. Anyway, sad lonely guy just thinking about things on the internet, but god, FUCK 2009 so far

http://www.funnychill.com/files/cool-pictures/clock-sad-face.jpg

waaah fergettit

everything must die!

Going on a pathetic archive.org binge, looking up friends webpages from high school, and somehow ended up at a photoagallery from a few weeks ago of a friend who just got married, one of my very best friends from back in the day. He looks so happy with his bf (I guess his husband now), I have so few real friends anymore. Anyway, sad lonely guy just thinking about things on the internet, but god, FUCK 2009 so far

I never think in quantity when it comes to friends, really? Then again that's probably cause I have very few friends. I simply don't need a ton of friends.

Of course she looks happy: she's supposed to. :-)

I'm simply some vague internet thing, but I still send you some hugs. :-)

Discussions of depression almost always get muddled up by confusing clinical depression, which is a mental health problem, with just being unhappy, which is as common as spit.

The usual cure for unhappiness is to understand the cause of it and to decide you can change it. Since understanding the causes of your unhappiness and correctly identifying what to do to change it are both processes that are prone to error, ignorance and self-delusion, it can take quite a few iterations of this to tip the balance in your favor.

Clinically depressed people, otoh, are incapable of acting to change their situation. They need help.

Clinically depressed people, otoh, are incapable of acting to change their situation. They need help. - yes, the problem is that it is that the line b/c CD & the more situational variety is often so subtle, or the transition so smooth, that it is very difficult to distinguish one from the other, at least not until the CD reaches such ridiculous extremes that it reveals itself for what it is. It is a slippery slope, this depression stuff. Best just to consult a professional from the outset & let them help you sort out what needs to be done.

This - incapable of acting to change their situation is the crux of the matter.

The sense of hopelessness leads to a sense of helplessness. That learned helplessness, like animals in labs.

That even when you have identified the cause - or at least the principle aggravator - of your depression, you still feel utterly helpless and unable to do anything about it. The feeling of "it does not matter if I move or I don't move, I will be administered an electric shock either way." Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yeah, I just came out of a major CD funk last year & you really do feel helpless & trapped inside an existential catch-22. I hate to think where it would have led to if not for the guidance of those close to me. I came out of it (thank god), but I wish I'd been more hip to what was going on earlier b/c I simply would like all that time back! I'm so scared of heading down that path again that, these days, if I wake up with a normal case of the blues I contemplate calling my doctor.

Hell of a lot of times it's been peeps like my awesome husband who basically pack me in a suitcase and drop me off at the therapist when I'm far gone in the depressio camp as I'm obviously too one with my bed & blankets to be functional. OTOH the idea that I'm "incapable of acting to change [my] situation" is one I know is DAMN dangerous. "Change" meaning maybe being able to take a shower, put on real clothes, things I know will put me in a slightly more functional frame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ2En_1IfhI

On the OTHER other hand there's sometimes the idea that there IS a way to change the situation by a gun to the head. Fuck that. What I'm saying is I realize w/me there's a lot of ideas that are bad that try to settle like birds on my head and I have to shake them before they lay eggs.
I heard this metaphor when I was 16 and it has resulted in this habit of literally shaking my head like a wet dog to connote kicking the damn thing out. Just what I need, another weird tic, right? But it works for me on some level I guess.

If you are capable of finding the will to get up, take a shower and put on real clothes, all by yourself, then you haven't yet reached the last stage of incapacity, thankfully. But if that is consistently about all you can accomplish before you exhaust your ability to act, then I'd say you should still be considered clinically depressed - which isn't shameful, just important to know and for others around you to recognize, so you can get to the therapist and get more help.

It's not like I am saying you or other depressed people are, by definition, incapable and therefore beyond change, but more of a functional definition, based on current observable behavior, requiring outside intervention and assistance.

btw, I like the shaking your head thing. Sounds effective.

I'm more than familiar w/clinical depression, Aimless!

Some of this lady's stuff has helped me – DEFS not saying it's a global solution or that it will work for everyone. She has this thing where you set up sort of a living will-type document to tell others (and yourself) how you want to be treated when yr too far gone.

Ugh, sorry for my stupid revive last night. I understand the distinction between being really bummed out over certain events or circumstances, and the more persistent CD. I wasn't trying to pretend like I'm really depressed, I just wanted to vent and drunkenly went for this one to revive. My post looks pretty stupid sitting up against the legitimate problems that a lot of people were/are discussing in this thread. That said, thanks stevienixed.

ZS don't feel bad. fwiw (not saying you did the wrong thing, don't feel embarrassed) this is the thread I post to when I've got that vibe: I'm sad home of Abbott the sad revivalist.