the genre known as dubstep - search and destroy

I don't really know if this belongs here, I'm not really deep into dubstep, but the new Mount Kimbie ep is gorgeous. Probably more ambient than dubstep, it's got an amazing atmospheric depth, with eerie, thin detailed rhytms running through it. It sounds like music you suddenly seem to think is there when lost. A+.

Have Mount Kimbie done other stuff like this? I know nothing about him/them, but this one's a definite keeper.

i didnt like that quest and silkie set all thaaat much. maybe its my pc speakers or the fact i was concentrating on work but a lot of it seemed a bit middle of the road/chillout.

Ha titch you think everything I like is middle of the road.

I must try to find more daring, brilliant and intense music to recommend.

you must.

dyou like the joker sets tim? or the new hyperdub releases? the stuff they played on MAHs show last year, though its not really dubstep as such, is still really doing it for me.

I've only heard the samples of mount kimbie EP at juno and it amazed me to no end. Imagine what would happen when I get my hands on the real thing!

where can i get the joker sets, titchy? and what's his most recommended release? particularly the one that you said "dubstep that is actually kinda funky and not joyless" about.

sorry tim, must not post before breakfast. meant to say "i think the connection between ramadanman and 2step is kinda thin".

and yeah, i agree on Blimey, it's a landmark, percussively and in it's restraint.

i like anti social, a lot, i think they've produced at least three stone cold classics - Quest's "Forever" and "Stand" and Silkie's "Horizons" - and there's tons i've not heard. Mala's also playing this Silkie beat that sounds like Starkey's Gutter Music, which needless to say I'm a fan of.

But what I find so farcial about your statement that says that Anti Social make up "the good side of dubstep (which) is stronger now than it ever was during the so-called golden age", is that so much of Anti Social's sound is so dependent on the foundations Mala built in that golden age. that's why he signed them!

Except that Anti Social only take a few of the many aspects that made mala's music so remarkable - the warmth and rollage of say Anti War Dub - but ignore the more staggeringly ground breaking percussive ideas, as found in "Learn" and "Bury the Bwoy." If you want to proclaim Anti Social as the next level you need to recognise the value of the "golden era" too.

--

and @ p-noid: the hyperdub/wonky stuff is a whole different trajectory but is exploding with posibilities rigth now, regardless of whether you want to call it dubstep or not.

Is that Mount Kimbie release available on download anywhere? Sounds great.

"But what I find so farcial about your statement that says that Anti Social make up "the good side of dubstep (which) is stronger now than it ever was during the so-called golden age", is that so much of Anti Social's sound is so dependent on the foundations Mala built in that golden age. that's why he signed them!"

True, but Mala is, like, the only golden age producer I check for consistently. Unfortunately only a third of the DMZ records were produced by him! Coki and Loefah = serious zzzzz. So we're talking about, what, a handful of truly great tracks during the golden age? (let's count 'em: "Neverland", "Bury Da Bwoy", "Left Leg Out", "Blue Notez"... "Lean Forward"/"Learn", "Changes"/"Forgive" and "Shake Out Yer Demons" only emerged after the golden age though they're all fabulous obv. Also "Anti-War Dub" is good but overrated and kinda sounds nothing like Quest/Silkie???)

I also disagree with the notion that Anti-Social are restricting themselves to a portion of Mala. You could easily reconstruct their sound by reference to Zed Bias circa 2001 and cut out the Mala middleman entirely. THe truth is somewhere in the middle probably.

Finally, the stonecold Silkie/Quest classic is "Sky's The Limit" obv.

dunno man, if you think that level of quality counts as a "handfull" i think you should apply those levels of standards to anti social.

plus there's countless other great mala tunes you've ignored: sinners dub, give jah glory, alicia remix, In Liv, creeper, ancient memories, chaimba... it goes on.

i dont hear a lot of zed in anti social, not remotely. their stuff is steadfastly halfstep in construction. zed is the master of the deft fill and far more rhythmically diverse. anti social are on this linear house tip.

if you dont like loefah and coki, so be it - but you gotta at least recognise they broke ground. odd i would have thought you'd at least like "Stuck" though, pure jump-up nu dark swing.

xpost - not sure what tune i was talking about but theres not that many of his out there - maybe check the samples at boomkat? as far as mixes, theres one here http://www.zshare.net/download/5344464594dfa8be/ and one here http://drop.io/JokerMix. i think there was another one on the fact site somewhere. theres prob others that ive not heard. someone needs to create a rolling wonky thread.

just want to chime in with agreement to "Anti-War Dub" being overrated. it's alright, but i don't enjoy it anywhere near as much as the other Mala bits on DMZ/Deep Medi Tim mentioned. i imagine a lot of the love for it comes through hearing it out at 'raves' (and its enforced rarity, which is fine by me since i sold my copy for some ludicrous sum :)

i think the two Loefah records on DMZ are absolutely crucial, especially Mud/Ruffage. but i don't need anything else by him, or anything else copying that sound.

i love Loefah and hate that he's seen as dull and plodding because of all the people who have copied him and produced a monotonous halfstep-monster industry, although of course I can see how he might be boring to some people. Ideally I see a Loefah track dropped at a night with a big system in between more upbeat 2steppy pieces, just to slow things down a bit and let some bass drop.

I also loved Coki, Tortured/shattered is a favourite of mine, Burning and his co-production on Night, both of which I obviously never want to hear again but which were pretty awesome at the time. The midrange metal wobble ridiculousness of Spongebob etc. have really brought him down in my estimation.

Would agree that Mala is hte best of Mystikz tho.

Hessle audio I'm conflicted on. Lot's of people pointing to it as outside the "mainstream" of dubstep and superior to it. And I feel some of the tunes. But some are just, I dunno, not rude enough? A bit too clean, slightly coffee-table? I might be well off but I just get that sometimes from some of the tunes.

And also sometimes not really very funky/2steppy when people are saying they're preferable over the "mainstream" which is bringing a paucity of these qualities.

I do recognise Coki and Loefah broke ground. But from my perspective it's a bit like how Jonny L's "Piper" broke ground in d&b. Like, "wait, this is gonna be the whole genre now???" But, um, yeah, "Stuck" is good, I just forgot to list it above (though "Neverland" is much the better track on that 12). Anyway I'm not trying to downplay Mala who I still like most of all (and you're right, Martin, there are still more Mala classics than Anti-Social classics, though the gap is rapidly narrowing) so much as give thanks for the emergence of heaps of artists in this general vein. The fact that Quest and Silkie are just some more strong producers (worthy of a hat-tip in a this month in dubstep run-down rather than a full-blown hagiography) reflects well on the scene itself. Of course to actually engage with the scene full-on as you do requires wading through the pile of crap as well, which I don't have to luckily.

As for Anti-Social's sound, well, a lot of Anti-Social stuff is on that linear house tip ("The Seafront" etc.) but "Sky's The Limit" and a lot of other Silkie tracks especially either depart from that entirely or fill in the bar with a lot more percussion that reminds me of Bias circa 2001/2002 - stuff like his remix of El-B's "Serious". And it's Zed Bias-y as much in the way it uses urgent quasi-jazzy instrumental refrains (trilling vamps and the like). It's a lot more lush than Mala who generally uses very spare melodic hooks (not a criticism).

Re Hessle Audio, I agree they could be ruder (but then basically the more dubstep is like "Serious (Zed Bias Remix)" the better in my opinion). I think of a lot of this Hessle Audio/3024/etc. stuff as being the equivalent of the kind of drum & bass DJ Clever was pushing five years ago - trying to recapture the sense of possibility of earlier sounds but doing so in a cleaner/more technical/more professional manner.

OTOH I always think "coffee table" is a dangerously fuzzy kind of term, it sort of eats up all sorts of spaces of possibility around it. I've always thought that the idea of New Forms as "coffee table jungle" was such a point-missing exercise (the real problem with that album being that half the tracks on the first disc are weak).

no no no tim, you can't compare loefah to techstep. for a start techstep was part of the jungle/d&b continum, whereas dubstep clearly - sonically, socially, musically - broke away from garage. (seriously the garage crowd didnt give a fuck about FWD>>).

Techstep made d&b more constrained. Loefah took early dubstep and did things that no producer has ever had the balls to do. Reducing it to such few incredible, beautiful elements, stripped it back so far it was breathtakingly daring to play it out and call it "dance" music. i dont mind if it's not feminine enough for you or whether it lacks momentum or if it's too agressive or if it's too cold, but you gotta respect it broke new, wonderful ground in what constitued urban "dance" music.

So who's ready for the Kryptic Minds album on Loefah's new label? ;)

btw, has anyone else noticed how bad New Forms has dated but Timeless (sic) hasnt?

"the real problem with that album being that half the tracks on the first disc are weak"

Sure, but I think the "coffee table" critique hits at why they are weak.

"Techstep made d&b more constrained."

Not initially.

"Techstep made d&b more constrained. Loefah took early dubstep and did things that no producer has ever had the balls to do. Reducing it to such few incredible, beautiful elements, stripped it back so far it was breathtakingly daring to play it out and call it "dance" music. i dont mind if it's not feminine enough for you or whether it lacks momentum or if it's too agressive or if it's too cold, but you gotta respect it broke new, wonderful ground in what constitued urban "dance" music."

You could as easily say "Loefah made dubstep more constrained. Techstep took d&b and did thing that no producer had ever had the balls to do..." And in fact if you replaced "techstep" with "neurofunk" (which is what "Piper" was really) then I've read so many descriptions of that music in exactly the terms you apply to Loefah.

As I said I agree that Loefah broke new ground but I disagree that the ground broken was that amazing. But this argument kinda hits a dead-end at this point.

"Sure, but I think the "coffee table" critique hits at why they are weak."

Well the term equally applies to all the life-changing amazing tracks on disc 2 ("Share The Fall (Instrumental)", "Change My Life", "Trust Me", "Hot Stuff", "Ballet Dance" etc. etc.) - the difference being: better rhythms, better grooves, greater focus on a surround-sound immersion than on vocals...

"btw, has anyone else noticed how bad New Forms has dated but Timeless (sic) hasnt?"

Also this strikes me as wrong but again I think it's just a matter of opinion and we're not gonna see eye to eye here.

I've only listened to the sample but Appleblim's remix of "If Alone" sounds like bliss.

"New Forms has dated"

i dont think it has - played it the other week and some of the 12" remixes and they all sound as good as they used to. and i *was* expecting them to sound dated. the more straight ahead D&B on timeless sounds good - not the rest though. new forms integrated the jazz/live elements a 100 times better than goldie.

I agree 100% with that.

"I agree that Loefah broke new ground but I disagree that the ground broken was that amazing"

well, to be fair, i feel similarly about coki post-"Tortured." Stuff like "Spongebob" might be original, but sonically I cant be dealing with it.

has Darkstar - Aidy's Girl a Computer been released yet?? that tune is wack!

nope. wack as in, poor?

no, wack as in awesome. what's your take on that track?

wrong choice of word, sorry. i'm indonesian.

Top, top marks indeed for the new Mount Kimbie EP.

"Is that Mount Kimbie release available on download anywhere? Sounds great."

It's floating around as a 320 mp3 torrent and will probably make the Rapidshare rounds before long.

worth mentioning on the colourful, actually kinda funky tip is gemmy's 30 min mix for fact, not sure which are which but there's at least four or five fantastic new-ish ones on there. (tracklisting here)

also good is this 2000f mix from december, nothing really tops 'you don't know what love is' but lots of bouncy 'not joyless' gems still. if you can stand 64kbps, joker and nomad's dec 22 rinse show is long enough to play catch up with most of the best recent big tunes from this corner

Feeling in a big way right now:

Untold's stuff on Hemlock: http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=158993
Breakage / Instra:mental on Naked Lunch: http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=157855
Millie, Daphne 02: http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=155823
Anstam, Cree: http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=157871

Not so much "classic" dubstep, more accents of techno, IDM and even industrial. But definitely the strain I'm most interested in at the moment.

random generalisation but i was listening to the distance album last night and much as i like it (prob one of the best dubstep albums), it reminded me that one of the things i dislike about dubstep is how weak it can sometimes be rhythmically.

not sure about this new Horsepower 12".

lead track is over-busy. Crap snare drum and hi-hats. Full of samples of sirens and gun shots, cars screeching and explosions. Also skanking guitar and melodica. Personally I'm a bit sick of cod-reggae touches in dubstep, even though that's a bit hypocritical cause I'm still in to all the old tracks with said touches in them. Really overstays it's welcome, over six minutes and could do with being less than four.

Second track has some cod eastern touches and wobbly bass. Just generally do not want.

Neither track very 2steppy at all.

oh in fact i should mention the second track has Spongebob esque metallic annoying mid-range bass wobbly, not even just regular wobble.

bollocks. i have a total wobble-aversion but Kingstep only has it in touches at the end. mostly it's like Sholay on steroids. sure i'd have loved it to be garage but in its own right it's a great tune.

i wish it was like Sholay on steroids!

dorian concept's new album is sounding pretty solid as of halfway through, lots of nice simmery pitchbent chime sounds. can be listened to here. not dubstep, but in a similar vein to rustie i guess--are there any other threads for this stuff?

someone needs to create a rolling wonky thread.
― p-noid (titchyschneiderMk2), Friday, February 6, 2009 3:18 PM (1 week ago)

^^! if only there were a better name!

On the wonky tip, Kode9’s forthcoming “Black Sun” is ridiculous. Funky beat + all the perverse synth maneuvers of wonky = devastating. I’m sure those of you in London have already heard this out…

new dusk n blackdown show has some goodies. though i usually always skip the opening history lesson and get to the new exclooses.

Anyone heard Skream's remix of La Roux then? I think it's fantastic, although i wish the breakbeat at the end went on a bit longer.

http://twitter.com/snoopdogg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/thirdandarmyst/snoop.jpg

and Plastician is saying he's playing some shit tomorrow night on Rinse.

just heard it. its snoop produced by chase n status. its a bit shit tbh. lil waynes dubstep track with pharrell was better.

lol, just posted this on the autogoon thread. it's a bit nine inch nails, weirdly. i like it though

it sounds like corny dubstep and snoops verses are really boring.

actually it makes sense that its corny cos a) its chase n status b) they usually make d&b/breakbeat stuff (far as im aware), not dubstep.

I love the corniness of Chase and Status usually though. It's the best thing about them!