DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived post-Murdoch era

they must be pretty convinced they're gonna lose the next election unless they pull something like this

This is probably not what Cameron wants to focus on as it has torn the party apart every other time it has come up. He has been fairly adept at keeping a lid on it until now.

― Tullamorte Tullamore (ShariVari), Wednesday, 23 January 2013 11:51 (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tradeoff: keepng a lid on it until after the next election...

what else is he gonna focus on? can't see the economy improving any time soon, Labour aren't gonna announce any policy commitments before the next election is called - except now presumably they'll have to take a stance on this

i guess this will further brutalise the Lib Dems' vote but half of nothing is still nothing so

1228: Labour's Dennis Skinner brands Mr Cameron a "posh boy", as the decibel level rises once again in the House.

Olde Laboure bantz at its best

This whole thing is a dog's dinner, it's idiotic and short-sighted on so many fronts it beggars belief, basically, it's who cares if we fuck up the country as long we're still in power, Tories eh? Even so I'm still worried that a lot of idiots in England might fall for it.

Still, breaking up the Union and then leading what's left of the UK out of Europe will certainly get Cameron into the history books

This feels fairly shrewd of Cameron:

Makes Europe a talking point (rather than tanking economy and disgusting ideological cuts taking place on back of it).
Forces Labour to follow or declare they are not going to (passing on some of the Tories' typical divisions to Labour).
Best bet for winning next election (nothing else to win it on, other than 'we're all in it together, we all need to tighten our belts' bullshit, which was tired and dishonest the first time around).
Can stay in Europe (which Cameron wants, I think), with impunity

Wins all ways, apart from fucking Britain if we do exit of course.

Speech itself was notable for its nauseating config of this stinking archipelago as 'independent island mentality' 'strong-minded' (swore violently at that point), and general historical saviour and moral fucking conscience of Europe. 'There is no European demos' was an indication of how badly he needs some sort of support from other European nations.)

or this:

This whole thing is a dog's dinner, it's idiotic and short-sighted on so many fronts it beggars belief, basically, it's who cares if we fuck up the country as long we're still in power, Tories eh? Even so I'm still worried that a lot of idiots in England might fall for it.

Still, breaking up the Union and then leading what's left of the UK out of Europe will certainly get Cameron into the history books

While the separatists try to work out how to get IN to Europe and what currency they will use.

I don't think it's shrewd at all, it's the usual Cameron/Osborne back-of-fag-packet will-this-do botch job

(xp)

Portillo was almost incandescent talking about it on This Week, he stopped sort of calling Cameron a fat-faced idiot but only just. Mind you he might fall back into line like a good obedient little Tory twat like the rest of them are doing for the sake of winning the next election

I think it's a big enough story that it will deflect away from a lot of other horrible shite without them actually having to do much before the election

Thing is, what powers do they actually want to take back from the EU? I mean, obviously, being Tories they want to fuck over workers when and where they can - Cameron even seems to be hankering after some Europe wide campaign for workers everywhere to be fucked over - but it's the usual vague blather about mythical red tape and regulations. I think he said at one point, "We don't want Europe to tell us how many hours junior doctors should work", uh, right Dave, that's a vote winner.

A lot of people might not like "europe" as such, but most do not care enough to vote for the Conservatives to be back in power so as to get a referendum on it.

Mind you he might fall back into line like a good obedient little Tory twat like the rest of them are doing for the sake of winning the next election

If they were prepared to be obedient this wouldn't be a problem. You just know that a significant proportion of them view not being hard enough on Europe (and by extension, immigration, tax and regulation) as the reason they're ignominiously in coalition. Cameron is still probably the Tories' greatest electoral asset, in the absence of Boris Johnson MP, but he doesn't have much security within his own party.

Quite an amusing comment from Tony Blair (remember him?)

"...it reminds me a bit of the Mel Brooks comedy Blazing Saddles, where the sheriff holds a gun to his own head and says at one point, "If you don't do what I want, I'll blow my brains out." You want to watch that one of the 26 don't just say, go ahead."

Angela Merkel: "Oh, Lordy, Lord, he's desperate! Do what he say! Do what he say!"

A lot of people might not like "europe" as such, but most do not care enough to vote for the Conservatives to be back in power so as to get a referendum on it.

I don't agree. People don't feel strongly enough about it to put obvious lamers like UKIP into Parliament but the Tories running with it could well be enough to outgun whatever pitiful manifesto Labour can come up with at the next election.

and if this referendum ever takes place on the terms Cameron claims, then i'd say the likelihood - slim, maybe - is of a "leave" vote. which Cam probably doesn't want, but that's how cynical this gamble is - the chance of winning the next general election at the cost of financially wrecking the country

and if this referendum ever takes place on the terms Cameron claims, then i'd say the likelihood - slim, maybe - is of a "leave" vote. which Cam probably doesn't want, but that's how cynical this gamble is - the chance of winning the next general election at the cost of financially wrecking the country

― you jelly like bitter lemon (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 January 2013 15:50 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's what I meant by shrewd btw - agree the political intelligence, other than in a brutal, survivalist sense, is at a very low wattage.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/David_Cameron_official.jpg/220px-David_Cameron_official.jpg
"I'm hungry, should I kill this goose that lays golden eggs?"

Has Europe actually ended up being a big issue with voters at general election time? I don't know much about early 70s politics so please tell me if it was then. I kind of think it's one of those issues that drives Westminster and a small number of voters mad and the rest of the population don't really see it as a key issue when push comes to shove. I certainly can't see many voters thinking "Oh, I'm not going to vote Labour because they won't give us a referendum on European membership."

I mean, even among those considering voting Ukip, only a quarter rate Europe as one of the top three issues facing the country.

The high point for caring was 1997, when 40% rated it in their top three issues. Now that figure is 2% according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Ugh, Cameron is so pleased with himself - I mean even more than usual

40% rated it in their top three issues but a pro-European party still won by a landslide. Nowadays at least half the electorate have grown up within the EU and don't really know what it would be like outside it. I'd have imagined that Europe dropped down the priority list as the prospect of Britain joining the Euro receded.

We're now another bad quarter away from a triple-dip recession. these fuckwits are destroying a decade.

Clegg's admission today was kind of astonishing. I'm sure that wasn't cleared with the Tories.

We're shit and we know we are

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/27/uk-immigration-romania-bulgaria-ministers

In 2007, Eurostar ran adverts in Belgium for its trains to London depicting a tattooed skinhead urinating into a china teacup.

Pictures! Or..

Please don't come to Britain – it rains and the jobs are scarce and low-paid.

truth in advertising.

if they go with this - they can't, if they're sane - then any sensible opposition party shd be running subtitled versions in their own party political broadcast slots between now and the next general election

Oh, this is one of those ideas that will hit the wall of someone saying "don't be so soft, lad", and will never happen.

You seem convinced such a wall exists, I'm not convinced though...

They're already doing enough to make sure no one wants to invest here over the next five years so it's not as if they're that arsed about portraying Britain as a shitehole.

Meanwhile here's the man who will save the Tories yeah right.

Tarbuck Obama.

But if we had a black Tory PM, Daily Mail readers wouldn't know who to vote for. Oh wait, they'd just keep voting for UKIP...

UKIP membership: 19,000.

We need to give these people a massive platform because?

because newspaper editors/publishers agree with them.

i don't think membership of a political party has much correlation with the number of people who share views with that party.

people who seriously believe the EU is an important institution ought to start by accepting that a lot of people in the UK, presumably elsewhere, don't share that opinion. behind every comedy UKIP stooge on TV are a bunch of non swivel-eyed-inbreds who are suspicious of the EU partly from xenophobia, partly from instinctive distrust of mega-bureaucracies. perhaps politicians who believe that democracy is a big deal ought to try to confront some of these prejudices rationally occasionally?

i dunno, just thinking out loud.

how do you rationally confont xenophobia? i don't think callin the ~ great british public ~ a load of slow-witted reactionary swine is on the table

i cd care less, the EU draws its legitimacy from a bunch of governments i don't think of as particularly legitimate, just an ueber-sham parliament afaic

but the contempt that naysayers are treated with by pro politicians on both sides of the argument is a revealing little insight into what pro politicians think about democracy

and i think i'm saying that to dismiss all objections to the EU as xenophobic is cynical and defeatist at the same time

and xenophobia - prejudice anyway - can be rationally countered, if you've the will and the energy. one of the reasons that voters move towards far right parties imo is not mainstream parties failing to recognise their concerns but mainstream parties consistently, cravenly refusing to unambiguously oppose racism

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/britains-economy-is-a-disaster-and-nobody-is-entirely-sure-why/272556/

I can think of a few pretty obvious Bullingdon-membershipped reasons why

will ye fuck off?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v2vPsxwKXE

maybe the economy's a disaster because the supply of low-skilled low paid jobs is finite and the gov has slashed everything else

As someone who may have to rely on it I'm pretty fucking furious about the Lewisham A&E announcement.

(For anyone not paying attention this is Jeremy Hunt's decision to downgrade ahem partially close a solvent well-performing A&E department to 'support' two indebted fuckups several miles away)

yeah, it's hard to imagine Hunt's estimate of two extra minutes of ambulance travel being correct if your options are QE and KCH

King's and Guy's are both shitting it about the likely extra patient numbers. Working at KCH A&E on a Saturday night probably sucks enough as it is without +xx% seriously ill people from Lewisham being brought in from too far down the road

Apparently the mayor of Lewisham says they're going to do a legal challenge?

Jeremy Hunt really ought to be in prison, so obviously this government decided it would be a great idea to put him in charge of the NHS.

Yes, well done again Liberal Democrats