Finally Rich - Chief Keef

I put it on mine as a last minute revision. It was disappointing but still pretty good.

there's no "objectively bad" and there's no "i am completely able to self-analyze my enjoyment of this music and yep, there's no extra musical factors at play"

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, January 18, 2013 2:49 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no one is saying the latter part

nice false dichotomy tho

generally speaking I agree with the proposition that music appreciation is subjective but arguing that Chief Keef can rap is like saying D - F# - A constitutes a C major scale. OTM that we need Geir in here because he is a better mc than Chief Keef

― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, January 18, 2013 2:53 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

depends on what ur looking for in a rapper obv

dan has strong opinions and voices them strongly and that's cool w/ me.

he is also v. intelligent so i kind of assume that he realizes that it is possible some people actually like his music and aren't just indulging in some kind of fetishization of an imagined "authenticity" or something. i think he just hates the music so much he has a hard time imagining this.

minstrel show analogy is kind of off and anyway a lot of minstrel music and humor is great. but that's another thread.

this isn't quite true but i guess i just like of love sosa as a kind of ambient track with some compelling wordless vocals or something.

think of

nice false dichotomy tho

add dichotomy to the list of terms you've missed used here

lol

what are you saying with "there must be extra-musical reasons we enjoy it, which he's wrong about, but w/e" then?

I like that you laughed at your own zing.

So basically if I'm looking for the inability to rap in a rapper, fulfilling that is enough to qualify a rapper as good.

GD was laughing at the irony of his own failure to properly type the word "misused," clearly

what are you saying with "there must be extra-musical reasons we enjoy it, which he's wrong about, but w/e" then?

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, January 19, 2013 1:58 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He meant that dan implies that deej couldn't like it without extra-musical factors (because musically it's so "objectively" bad), which he disagrees with.

He's not saying that there are no extra-musical factors at all.

I agree with you that no-one can really say confidently "I am completely able to self-analyze my enjoyment of this music and yep, there's no extra musical factors at play", but I think one can say confidently "I like this music as music, whether or not extra-musical factors are also at play".

He's the rap game Mies van der Rohe: no ornamentation, no gargoyles, no fancy parapets.

add dichotomy to the list of terms you've missed used here

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, January 18, 2013 7:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eh i just meant that you were assuming that if i disagreed w/ dan than i must mean the opposite of dan which is the 'false dichotomy'

dan has strong opinions and voices them strongly and that's cool w/ me.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, January 18, 2013 6:55 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it doesnt seem very productive.

this isn't quite true but i guess i just like of love sosa as a kind of ambient track with some compelling wordless vocals or something.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, January 18, 2013 6:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if ur not listening to the words imo u kinda 'miss the point'

noz made a good argument for this applying to asap but i think the words are more central to keef's appeal despite the opinions of h8rs

def. a good argument for ASAP. I think even for haters ck would be a lot harder to background.

every ace hood / young chop song is proof that keef is not a beats-only phenomenon

seriously that ace hood record is teh worst

i didn't say he was a beats-only phenomenon, just that what's compelling about his rapping has more to do with the sound of the words than their sense.

Yah I disagree...the beats-only thing is unrelated

I think "i gets lots of commas / I can fuck your mama" is important to liking this for me personally

Finally MILF

"i gets lots of commas / I can fuck your mama”

I love how you cling to this one semi-clever keef line like an orphan standing in the rain, clutching a tattered photograph of his mum while looking into the department store window display

it barely even works, even a billionaire only has 3 commas

maybe he writes really long sentences

i got lots of commas / david foster wallace

I love how you cling to this one semi-clever keef line like an orphan standing in the rain, clutching a tattered photograph of his mum while looking into the department store window display

― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, January 19, 2013 9:15 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

jesus christ dudes i cant even rely on an example more than once w/out you guys coming up w/ some reason that i'm like flailing to justify liking something that OBVIOUSLY MUST BE HORRIBLE-- no, the entire verse is good. its the fucking dozens put to song & is no worse than 1000s of tracks w/in that style. Obviously how he delivers them--flow, melody, cadence--is key to why lyric that look plain on paper are good. but 'god yall some broke boys' is a great line too.

sends chills down my spine it does

who said anything about chills down the spine? im just talking about whether ppl care about the lyrics, as in, the lyrics being a part of what makes the song 'work'. 'low end or no end,' 'now that boy slumped over, they do it all for sosa,' it's all of a piece, idk why someone would get something out of this if they're pretending the lyrics arent there

should be 'o end or no end,' lol, he's not from the low end

then it's not a great line, it's a line. no need to oversell it. you think he's effective, cool, wish I did.

it is a funny line its just not going to stand up to 100 posts of scrutiny by ppl already dead set against it

i don't know why accusing other people of being predisposed to disliking Chief Keef is this self-evident and important thing to harp on if saying you're predisposed to liking Chief Keef isn't also fair game

no doubt. it's just...that's one of his best lines? cleverness, flow, insight, charisma...he just seems average at best. the beats are generic. i'm trying to see what you see in him and I just don't. oh well.
xp

this isn't quite true but i guess i just like of love sosa as a kind of ambient track with some compelling wordless vocals or something.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, January 18, 2013 6:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if ur not listening to the words imo u kinda 'miss the point'

noz made a good argument for this applying to asap but i think the words are more central to keef's appeal despite the opinions of h8rs

― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:05 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's also funny that ppl who say he's a bad lyricist are rockists, clinging to old, outdated definitions of hip hop, but the ppl who appreciate it strictly on sonic/rhythmic/vibe terms and enjoy it also aren't enjoying it in the ”right way”

i don't wanna get into the minstrelsy thing either, but I think there's an interesting double standard wrt to the pass given to rappers like Keef and the reaction same people have towards indie/backpacker/"conscious" rappers

It's also funny that ppl who say he's a bad lyricist are rockists, clinging to old, outdated definitions of hip hop, but the ppl who appreciate it strictly on sonic/rhythmic/vibe terms and enjoy it also aren't enjoying it in the ”right way”

― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:26 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://scienceblogs.com/thoughtfulanimal/wp-content/blogs.dir/351/files/2012/04/i-534ec9e4fe422e37f2c7b9b58810e809-operation%20game.jpg

i can't disagree w/ people who like the song?

this isnt about 'taking sides'

i got lots of commas / I rap like Tuomas

Obviously I lolled

I can fuck Tuomas / not braggin just honest

Finnishly Rich

i don't wanna get into the minstrelsy thing either, but I think there's an interesting double standard wrt to the pass given to rappers like Keef and the reaction same people have towards indie/backpacker/"conscious" rappers

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, January 19, 2013 1:31 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's only "interesting" if you start from the assumption that there's nothing else in CK's music to sustain interest!

i mean jeez people is it possible to just agree to disagree about his music? do you have to insinuate that we get our jollies on keef's "realness" as a chicago gang banger or something?

like i said i had no idea of the backstory before i heard (some of) the music. i just found it weirdly intense and compelling sonically. if you think i'm a chump b/c the music is bad, then whatever. that's OK. but this need to search for *other* reasons, and thus to invalidate those who disagree with you, is... i dunno it just seems like waste of thought, honestly.

he is also v. intelligent so i kind of assume that he realizes that it is possible some people actually like his music and aren't just indulging in some kind of fetishization of an imagined "authenticity" or something. i think he just hates the music so much he has a hard time imagining this.

it's plenty possible. it's also very worth ~thinking hard about~ how a lotta white dudes whose personal investment in/experience with the sorts of environments described by e.g. chief keef is strictly optative i.e. they're not from the neighborhoods whose stories they're most interested in, they don't have any relatives in the projects, if they care about people in the projects then that's terrific but wow it is ~kinda odd~ how very aggro white rap heads get about their images of black men, how their tastes seem so often to run to a violent/drug-related tropes, and how largely uninterested they seem in other images of black men being presented in the art they consume/write about/rep for: how their preference, in what they choose to write/talk/think about, seems strongly toward the image of a young black man as a guy who carries a firearm, takes and/or deals drugs, and thinks very little of women. when the reality of the black experience is broad and various and diverse, but you wouldn't really know that from the preference a whole lot of white dudes seem broadly to have for "hard"/"authentic"/w/e rap that describes a reality which is, in fact, only a segment of that reality. I could be 100% wrong about this, I'm nobody's expert on race, but that's always how this shit feels to me. generally speaking I think it's super-fair, given the long history of white americans and their tastes in black art, to ask sometimes: "are you projecting your preconceptions of black realities onto this stuff and pronouncing it good because it serves them back to you?"

^this
really found it ~interesting~ when ethan (white guy) would mercilessly clown nate (white guy) for his taste in hip hop. and maybe i'm just missing the threads, but it's ~interesting~ that there's basically zero discussion of non-"thug"/"gangsta" non-mainstream hip hop on this board.

it's only "interesting" if you start from the assumption that there's nothing else in CK's music to sustain interest!

you left out half of my equation ie the dismissal/contempt of backpacker/conscious rap