Finally Rich - Chief Keef

at any rate, I thought you'd be madder about the arguments where I was obliquely accusing the Chief Keef boosters of wallowing in a modern minstrel show but I guess that's not worth getting mad about, just when someone uses the word "objective"

actually I take that back; there was stuff I recognize as skill and talent going on in minstrel shows

i'm not gonna pretend there's some huge philosophical gulf between the Keef line and 2 Chainz saying "me and broke broke we don't get along" in a song i love, i'm just saying i despise "Love Sosa" as a piece of music so that line is kind of the icing on the cake made of shit

the icing on the cake made of shit

awesome

i like a lot of aggressive regional thug type rap, and i hate a lot of it, just like i love and hate lots of any genre of music that interests me. comes down to execution, and in this case i think the execution is clumsy and dull.

but in general soulja boy/max b mumblecore rap has never been my bag

at any rate, I thought you'd be madder about the arguments where I was obliquely accusing the Chief Keef boosters of wallowing in a modern minstrel show but I guess that's not worth getting mad about, just when someone uses the word "objective"

― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, January 18, 2013 1:31 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that argument presumes that we dont wade thru 100s & 100s of 'regional thug' videos regularly & find plenty of them horrible/boring despite factoring in every possible thug cliche. obviously, there's something here that some of us like outside of that. so whether or not there's a minstel show aspect to his appeal (obv there is w/ some fans as ever) is beside the pt because he's doing something interesting that say ace hood is not

To call something 'objectively bad' and then when called on it say that it's your subjective opinion that its objectively bad kinda deprives the word 'objective' of whatever meaning it might of had. If you don't like it just say you don't like it, why make the greater claim of it being bad, and then backtrack into 'when I say objectively bad, what I am saying is just my opinion but strongly worded'

you literally can't read

That's probably true.

Did anyone else have difficulty interpreting what I meant with that post? I will admit to trying to be as compressed as possible with the sentiment I was attempting to convey but I didn't think it was a deliberately misleading statement

my other option was "asymptotically approaching 'objectively bad'" but I figured that wouldn't fly

can we get Hongro in here

I think my issue with that (and I'm willing to grant it could just be my lack of conceptual background or understanding) is that its just another way of saying it's objectively bad. I have a hard time wrapping my head around what it would be for something to get close to objectovely bad if the concept is one that is something that is as conceptually problematic (or unicorny) as it is. But this is digression, I'll just assume I misuderstood.

DJ - you must realise that in the context of a disagreement what you said was bound to be misinterpreted.

are you talking to djdee or djpee

irrational is completely otm, dan just wants to emphatically say he hates this & thinks that it's so bad that there must be extra-musical reasons we enjoy it, which he's wrong about, but w/e

if he wants to continue spending his time weighing in by mentioning that he doesnt like it 500 diff ways thats on him

Just the other day I was called "cancer" for saying I liked Finally Rich and not laughing at Keef getting arrested. True story.

^^^ there are a lot of assjacks like this, and they should all die in a fire. regardless of what you think of a dude's mistake, I get sick of these statements. IE the dude on my friend's FB who said "nobody should care about this guy" when Rick Ross was having seizures.

"mistake" = "music"

"irrational is completely otm" is a pretty wonderful phrase, gotta say

there must be extra-musical reasons we enjoy it, which he's wrong about, but w/e

there's no "objectively bad" and there's no "i am completely able to self-analyze my enjoyment of this music and yep, there's no extra musical factors at play"

generally speaking I agree with the proposition that music appreciation is subjective but arguing that Chief Keef can rap is like saying D - F# - A constitutes a C major scale. OTM that we need Geir in here because he is a better mc than Chief Keef

I think we can all agree on one thing ... chief keef, objectively, is ... young

pshhhh compared to lil romeo in his prime dude sounds so OLD

i wanna apologize for upthread when i said this album is on par with the Travis Porter LP. the Travis Porter album is way way better.

i fucking love the travis porter album and was shocked to see no-one else nominated it for the ilx poll. my #2 most listened to album of the year.

yeah i left it out of my year-end list but if i did it over i'd put it in there

I put it on mine as a last minute revision. It was disappointing but still pretty good.

there's no "objectively bad" and there's no "i am completely able to self-analyze my enjoyment of this music and yep, there's no extra musical factors at play"

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, January 18, 2013 2:49 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no one is saying the latter part

nice false dichotomy tho

generally speaking I agree with the proposition that music appreciation is subjective but arguing that Chief Keef can rap is like saying D - F# - A constitutes a C major scale. OTM that we need Geir in here because he is a better mc than Chief Keef

― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, January 18, 2013 2:53 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

depends on what ur looking for in a rapper obv

dan has strong opinions and voices them strongly and that's cool w/ me.

he is also v. intelligent so i kind of assume that he realizes that it is possible some people actually like his music and aren't just indulging in some kind of fetishization of an imagined "authenticity" or something. i think he just hates the music so much he has a hard time imagining this.

minstrel show analogy is kind of off and anyway a lot of minstrel music and humor is great. but that's another thread.

this isn't quite true but i guess i just like of love sosa as a kind of ambient track with some compelling wordless vocals or something.

think of

nice false dichotomy tho

add dichotomy to the list of terms you've missed used here

lol

what are you saying with "there must be extra-musical reasons we enjoy it, which he's wrong about, but w/e" then?

I like that you laughed at your own zing.

So basically if I'm looking for the inability to rap in a rapper, fulfilling that is enough to qualify a rapper as good.

GD was laughing at the irony of his own failure to properly type the word "misused," clearly

what are you saying with "there must be extra-musical reasons we enjoy it, which he's wrong about, but w/e" then?

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, January 19, 2013 1:58 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He meant that dan implies that deej couldn't like it without extra-musical factors (because musically it's so "objectively" bad), which he disagrees with.

He's not saying that there are no extra-musical factors at all.

I agree with you that no-one can really say confidently "I am completely able to self-analyze my enjoyment of this music and yep, there's no extra musical factors at play", but I think one can say confidently "I like this music as music, whether or not extra-musical factors are also at play".

He's the rap game Mies van der Rohe: no ornamentation, no gargoyles, no fancy parapets.

add dichotomy to the list of terms you've missed used here

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, January 18, 2013 7:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eh i just meant that you were assuming that if i disagreed w/ dan than i must mean the opposite of dan which is the 'false dichotomy'

dan has strong opinions and voices them strongly and that's cool w/ me.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, January 18, 2013 6:55 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it doesnt seem very productive.

this isn't quite true but i guess i just like of love sosa as a kind of ambient track with some compelling wordless vocals or something.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, January 18, 2013 6:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if ur not listening to the words imo u kinda 'miss the point'

noz made a good argument for this applying to asap but i think the words are more central to keef's appeal despite the opinions of h8rs

def. a good argument for ASAP. I think even for haters ck would be a lot harder to background.

every ace hood / young chop song is proof that keef is not a beats-only phenomenon

seriously that ace hood record is teh worst

i didn't say he was a beats-only phenomenon, just that what's compelling about his rapping has more to do with the sound of the words than their sense.

Yah I disagree...the beats-only thing is unrelated

I think "i gets lots of commas / I can fuck your mama" is important to liking this for me personally