Literary Clusterfucks 2013

well, then, that changes EVERYTHING

it's okay tho bc it's a part of her survival process

If this hadn't turned out to be an abusive relationship I would still be pretty unhappy with a book like this being written, being as it's more warmed over "MEN DOMINATE WOMEN BECAUSE OF BIOLOGY" garbage. I find a person who would write that kind of book to be of pretty poor intelligence, character and judgment, and at least upthread I thought things had kind of come to an understanding that it's not mutually exclusive that she's a person who got trapped in a horrible situation that is deserving of sympathy and also that she deserves criticism for her book in the first place. A book that she got paid $400,000 to write, btw, a lot of fucking money. That said, I recognize there may not be any easy course of action for her to take at this point.

And then Valdes publishes this today.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, January 10, 2013 1:15 AM (Yesterday)

since (Yesterday) she has yet to clarify things to my liking so i will judge her a rape enabler

let's say that someone else wrote the same book but as a biography of valdes based on interviews, and then it turned out that valdes was being abused and the interviews were lies. should that person continue to promote a book that is now clearly about abuse written in the idiom + context of an abuser knowing what they now know?

should they, no. should valdes, in a world where she's not a potentially emotionally messed up abuse survivor, i guess not. however

that's all then. if you believe she doesn't have a choice bc she is still recovering from the abuse, fine. i'm not denying that might be true. but she should stop promoting it. that would be the right thing to do.

however

it's been like a day and she's not mordy.

i don't know what she is or isn't and neither do you

lol obv i know she's not a mordy

strictly speaking i can't be that certain, but i take you at your word

fwiw i don't have a history of claiming i'm not other people who i then turn out to be

I freely admit that idgi.

To me it is one thing to understand that abuse can render a victim into a place of extreme confusion about themselves, their relationship to their abuser, and what love really is, or what is true any more, leadnig them to appear wildly erratic in their actions, and self-contradictory from one day to the next, until they have finally undergone a long and difficult process of healing. My wife was abused as a child and it still affects her at age 60+. I get that part.

It seems to me to be another thing entirely to expect everyone to refrain from pointing out that the person is contradicting themselves from one day to the next, acting erratically, completely confused about their feelings, themselves, and their relationship with their abuser, because as we know the poor victim cannot help acting that way. What way? Oh, we cannot say that there is anything wrong with how they are acting or that it would be better to act any other way. Or that their frequent self-contradiction is any different from being clear-minded and level-headed, because this shows a lack of empathy. It is expected behavior, therefore it is beyond reproach?

That is what some of the angry ilxors seem to me to be saying here. That's what I Don't Get.

it's a HUGE leap between saying that promoting the book is unethical and the conclusion you've reached, accusing her of PERPETUATING ABUSE

ok, get over it. i think it's a shitty book that puts some toxic ideas out into the culture but if you think i was being hyperbolic then i will agree

yet again a conversation about abuse accusations has turned into a conversation about the moral character of the accuser. i see u rape culture ;)

i think that is sanctimonious ^

you would

haha I WAS JUST BEING RHETORICAL hey fuck you

it's difficult to square the seemingly paradoxical notions that a person can be a victim of abuse/oppression/etc and their behavior can only be understood in that context and then, as we so often do in the very next breath, assert that they are personally responsible for their own actions regardless of the larger determinative context. but I think that's exactly the kind of complex thinking these kinds of situations ask of us. You can try to be attentive to both.

*punches alien* welcome to the kyriarchy

it's difficult to square the seemingly paradoxical notions that a person can be a victim of abuse/oppression/etc and their behavior can only be understood in that context and then, as we so often do in the very next breath, assert that they are personally responsible for their own actions regardless of the larger determinative context. but I think that's exactly the kind of complex thinking these kinds of situations ask of us. You can try to be attentive to both.

― ryan, Friday, January 11, 2013 5:03 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

solid post

what a strange license plate

Contradicting oneself and acting erratically are not qualities to be cherished and encouraged. They are part of the damage inflicted by the abuse. Pointing these out as undesirable behavior is not the same as taking sides against a victim. It is something they need to see, acknowledge and heal from. They are part of the pathology of abuse, not symptoms of a lack of moral fiber. But that doesn't make them good, or right, or even neutral qualities.

This has been Literary Clusterfucks 2013. Tune in next year for, Literary Clusterfucks 2014. Thank you for joining us.

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Alisa Valdes ‏@MizAlisa
"Flew me to places I'd never been, until you put me down." Taylor Swift sums it up. #dichotomyisnotalie

WHY DO PPL CARE SO MUCH IF SHE IS GOOD OR BAD OR NEUTRAL JESUS CHRIST stop needing to judge the situation that doesn't involve you for like ONE SECOND. Speculating and wondering what's happening behind the scenes and reading her writing, even not LIKING her writing, fine, but the emphasis on reaching a definitive judgement is SO WEIRD and all lofty like.

i've only speculated in this thread i have no inside information

Alisa Valdes ‏@MizAlisa
Why are Sociopaths Considered Attractive | The Body Language Attraction...

we ard all sexperts

http://thebodylanguageattraction.com/why-are-sociopaths-considered-attractive/

Male sociopaths are successful with women because they readily know how to charm and attract women as if they are the masters of psychology of attraction. Indeed, they appear open and friendly to women from the start which makes them likable. They can make a few compliments which can make a lady feel pretty good. They will also appear appropriate and stylish to women – always smartly dressed and organized in appearance or presentation.

The typical sociopath has a character trait that so many men lack, CONFIDENCE. Nearly every male in the world that suffers from their own psychological problems related to never being able to find a female to care for them.

what

WHY DO PPL CARE SO MUCH IF SHE IS GOOD OR BAD OR NEUTRAL

Her specific actions can be discussed without making universal and absolute judgements about her moral worth, can't they?

Mordy tbh I don't get where you're going with this

Starting to feel like I opened a vortex to Planet Fuck You with this thread.

the body language attraction dot com

lol obv i know she's not a mordy

― Mordy, Friday, January 11, 2013 4:57 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how do you know

mordy you neednt drive it into the ground

well i've never dated a cowboy

i have been waiting in quiet dread for ilx to consider late 2012's "what's good about psychotics" trendlet

In my mind everyone is now at the second life mall, buying antlers and laser eyes.

the body language attraction

dot com

#dichotomyisnotalie

there's usually a point I reach in these obsessive/manic argument threads where I think "maybe I ought to give my old therapist a call"

addadicktomynatalie

Nearly every male in the world that suffers from their own psychological problems related to never being able to find a female to care for them.

If this sentence even made sense it would be hilarious.

mordy, i can't imagine why you would post anything about sociopaths unless it's a bizarre attempt to pathologize people who commit abuse