Literary Clusterfucks 2013

i'm feeling pretty calm + i'll take all comers. tho sleeve i think we've discussed this before and i'm trying not to retread.

sheesh

wd rather take abuse survivors' words at face value and be surprised every once in a while than the other option tbh

Agreed. If that makes me sanctimonious or self-righteous, oh well.

calmer than your are

― ♨ (am0n), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:09 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

:)

again mordy it'd be nice if you'd say who and what is that's sanctimonious instead of blithely announcing that your honesty is better than it (i'm assuming you mean it's you that's providing the honesty here)

i'm feeling pretty calm + i'll take all comers.
― Mordy, Friday, January 11, 2013 4:11 PM

lol @ this get-in-the-octagon shit

it'd be nice if it's incumbent upon you as an honest person to

xp

sanctimony connotes affectation, diningenuity, or hypocrisy fwiw #vocabulary #words

to be completely honest, i am not capable of remaining measured when people rip apart a claim of abuse while betraying a seeming ignorance of how that kind of abuse typically affects victims. for personal reasons, so i should never have posted what i posted last night. i was really grateful to emily and elmo, though, and don't think either of them can be described as self-righteous. also as long as everyone's being unnecessarily mean, your arms are too short to box with max, Mordy.

also i was grateful to in orbit and Nicole while reading this thread last night. yes i will continue to thrillingly catalogue my reactions to the first half of this thread no you cannot stop me.

"a seeming ignorance of how that kind of abuse typically affects victims" is key

all I'm saying is that a lot of people of mixed euro/indian descent do not identify as "native american" and would not be "okay" with being labeled native american.

― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:35 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you know a lot about how people from central and south america self identify i guess. ty for bringing that knowledge to this thread.

― max, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:57 (14 minutes ago) Permalink

and you know a lot about what it is "okay" to label them

hey thank you for that link Edward, Susie Bright OTM as usual.

i guess were all experts

she lied about being bisexual, she lied about being bipolar, she wrote a letter to her former employer equating using the term latino w/ cultural genocide (and called it worse than literal genocide), she wrote a post where she said the cowboy she was no longer with - who she wrote a love letter book to - abused her, deleted it and said it was because her publisher made her, then claimed it was because her agent made her, went on the radio and promoted the book like nothing had ever happened, even in discussing the deleted post said that she still felt like he tamed her for her current boyfriend... for anyone to read all these facts and then exclaim with horror that we can't dare discuss these facts without tarnishing her status as an abuse survivor is imho being sanctimonious and full of shit.

i'm an expert at discerning whose concern is genuine and who's just faking it as a display of moral superiority

call me a men's rights sexist advocate but that's the kind of thing that i feel is dishonest. the first link buzza posted to her history someone jumped to ask whether that means we should consider her a liar. we don't have to make statements like we're sure she's lying or not but it's another kind of lie to pretend that all of this isn't relevant or true.

90% of these things happened before she was even in a relationship with this cowboy.

Are you stoned? Stop being a dick.

dude, Alisa definitely has written a bunch of M@riss@-like stuff, but ...

Why is it so important to you for other people to judge her as harshly as you want to, Mordy?

we don't know for certain she "lied" about being bisexual, or bipolar -- that is, we don't know for certain she ISN'T bisexual, or bipolar. all we know is she mounted really incredible arguments saying she never said so in the first place.

no, she isn't 'credible' in that she has changed her story about x or y experience quite drastically.

but my whole position is that being very circumspect about what the truth is about valdes' experience very much includes being circumspect about saying the abuse didn't happen.

i feel like when dealing with people who may have "issues" it's often best to think about them empathetically (and that goes for all people really), especially when one does not have a particular dog in that fight, since who knows what someone is going through? it's not really a "loss" in my opinion to hold back. whatever her issues are, what she's said isn't so horrific as to preclude empathy.

it's another kind of lie to pretend that all of this isn't relevant or true.

hahahahahaha now it is revealed who the REAL liar is DO YOU SEE

oh i get it. Mordy is a liar.

i'm not going to call her A Liar to the extent that all things she has said about anything now Are Lies a priori. i mean, who the fuck knows? i don't, mordy, you don't either

I like Suzie Bright.

she's not here. i would offer her sympathy if she were. i don't feel like expressly offering her sympathy in front of a bunch of ppl who don't know her makes me a better person.

cuz that's what its about

i believe that she told askellen that she was a bisexual and then denied that she said that in the interview

i believe she posted on her blog that she is bipolar and then denied that she had ever written it

i believe in fairy winkle

I believe I can fly
I believe I can touch the sky

yes, but do either of those events mean you know she lied in the first place? not knowing one way or another means NOT KNOWING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER

I believe in life after love

I believe..that love is the answer

i know she lied in the first place or the second place. it had to be one.

worst segment of npr's "this i believe" EVER

nobody cares about what kind of person you are. i'm not a good person, i just get fucking mad when people start authoritatively posting at length about how some woman is clearly lying about what her boyfriend did to her in private like they know shit about dick like am i at a rape trial or some shit?

xxxxxxxxp

except no one did that. to say someone did it to make shit up just so you can denounce it.

is to*

she's not here. i would try to pin her down to some reality principle if she were (or probably would just let the whole thing go, tbh, unless some part of my life were at stake). but since it's just people figuring out things via a miasma of highly mediated evidence, well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBFrYGCU460

when the backwards B carving woman claimed someone attacked her, was it insensitive to point out that it might not be true? maybe. idk, i guess i'm not worried about appearing insensitive on ilx. i try to be sensitive irl to real ppl. not on a thread called Literary Clusterfucks 2013 in front of ilx posters.

listen, Mordy, let's just posit that she's a liar and her boyfriend abused her, okay? just as an experiment. the experience of abuse makes you doubt your own judgment of reality. that's just another way to explain conflicting accounts.

i think that could certainly be true!

i think what you would say about doubting backwards B carving woman is that certain ilxors' race pieties trump their gender pieties in that instance. it seems like an exhausting perspective on the world tbh.

xp okay i guess i should just reread your posts that made me so mad last night but i think i probably will not

the worst case, in my view, might be what's happening: it's possible that the cowboy was an abusive rapist, but valdes really does now believe all that crap about women being happier submitting to a real man, despite that.

but in general i don't like filling in with speculation what nobody has yet found out by asking.

― goole, Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:10 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"a seeming ignorance of how that kind of abuse typically affects victims" is key

except most victims of that kind of abuse do not go out and write a book length love letter to their abuser, sell it for a $400,000 advance, decide that their relationship was actually horrific, post that conclusion to their blog, retract it, then go out on a book tour and sell that book as an honest depiction of how awful feminism is and how wonderful abusive relationships are, after all.

this adds a few untypical features to the same old story.

theres a piece coming out in a little bit on a nick denton website that more or less confirms the worst case

well that's because most abuse victims aren't fairly high-profile authors