Literary Clusterfucks 2013

That was in response to the vast majority of today's "latino" identified people can probably not easily trace their heritage back to a single indian group, and many have at least some spanish ancestry.

I'm getting the impression that a substantial part of the reason native-descended ppl from Latin America & South America may not have strong ties to their ancestral native group is bc of Spanish conquest that broke up, displaced, erased, and recombined groups, so it's shitty to say NOW that they're not closely enough tied to it to "count" for something.

― grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Friday, January 11, 2013 1:50 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm not saying it doesn't "count" for something! I'm just saying I don't quite understand how she thinks the LA Times ought to identify people (unless she's just saying ethnicity isn't relevant at all in which case I don't know why it matters that her cousins are "Navajo" either).

Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to start a [REDACTED] with that post.

seems clear she prefers "native american" or "american indian"

race peace?

seems like the simplest thing to do would be to just call yourself CAUCASIAN [LATINO] as per so many job applications, government forms, and beauty pageant entrance packets

many ppl called 'latino' arent 'caucasian' tho. i think this is part of her point.

i don't think she has a point

about anything

ever

she has at least 4 points in her la times resignation letter, she numbers them and everything

tbf i haven't read anything in this thread since the last time i posted

seems clear she prefers "native american" or "american indian"

― max, Friday, January 11, 2013 1:55 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ok, but this wouldn't describe a lot of people who are described as latino today who are of mixed european-indian descent. And it would also suggest that we shouldn't refer to people as "Cuban" or "Mexican" or "Guatemalan" because those are all imposed by colonialism too. In any case, this is a debate that has been going on for decades and I think it's kind of ridiculous to call out the LA Times as being complicit in some kind of cultural genocide for using the prevailing term, a term that seems to have been arrived at for the moment as the result of an ongoing debate and not just imposed by some racists.

I see we've kinda moved on from the original clusterfuck, but according to someone on Twitter who contacted her, the original blog post was taken down at the request of her agent, not publisher. I hadn't remembered to consider the influence of the agent in all this, another party whose self-interest complicates things.

Ok, but this wouldn't describe a lot of people who are described as latino today who are of mixed european-indian descent.

i think if a person is of mixed euro-indian descent its "okay" by most standards to refer to them as native american or american indian

And it would also suggest that we shouldn't refer to people as "Cuban" or "Mexican" or "Guatemalan" because those are all imposed by colonialism too.

i dont really see why

In any case, this is a debate that has been going on for decades

yes

and I think it's kind of ridiculous to call out the LA Times as being complicit in some kind of cultural genocide for using the prevailing term, a term that seems to have been arrived at for the moment as the result of an ongoing debate and not just imposed by some racists.

yeah i mean i guess but i also dont feel all that compelled to condemn her for her at-the-time private resignation letter. i mean she made her views clear, she quit, the la times still calls people latino. she lost, im not gonna kick her while shes on the ground.

and not just imposed by some racists.

Like I am not trying to spin something out of control here but people keep walking right into it? Isn't it unavoidably the case that everything w/r/t race is imposed by some racists because the winners have mostly always gotten to set the terms?

i am kind of with in orbit and max here, i kind of feel like all the objections reinforce her points; plus, sidequestion--this is her letter of resignation? was this meant to be published or did she just send it to them and they made the call to publish this (w/her consent presumably)(probably already covered here, i'm just fuzzy w/ the detail of this partic incident)

also calling this "Cultural genocide" didnt originate with her did it? that seems to be one of the things zachlyon kind of brought up...?

ok max p much got to every single one of my points nm

like just as you feel it ridiculous for her to call out the la times i feel it a little ridiculous for a bunch of guys on a message board to feel the need to go out of their collective way to call her out for something thats 10 years old, that she likely doesnt support anymore, that has literally no bearing on their lives or conduct

I see we've kinda moved on from the original clusterfuck, but according to someone on Twitter who contacted her, the original blog post was taken down at the request of her agent, not publisher. I hadn't remembered to consider the influence of the agent in all this, another party whose self-interest complicates things.

― says a future man to his crystal son (reddening), Friday, January 11, 2013 1:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wonder if her agent told her to take down this tweet:

Alisa Valdes ‏@MizAlisa
To those of you asking about the disappearance of yesterday's blog post: I was asked to take it down by my publisher, and did. The end.

if we cant call people out for stuff that has no bearing on our lives or conduct we might as well just go home

;_;

http://www.latina.com/entertainment/tv/author-alisa-valdes-rodriguez-im-sick-seeing-latinas-powerless-sluts

Alisa Valdes ‏@MizAlisa
To those of you asking about the disappearance of yesterday's blog post: I was asked to take it down by my publisher, and did. The end.

LOL

that's an amazing URL

is there a personality type where people are addicted to conflict? i'm not trying to be funny here, is there a name for that kind of thing?

If we could harness this thread, it could provide enough energy to light 40,000 homes, and thereby generate irony in quantities too large to measure.

and yes the cultural genocide of using the term 'latina' seems to have become less of an acute problem now

is there a personality type where people are addicted to conflict? i'm not trying to be funny here, is there a name for that kind of thing?

― goole, Friday, January 11, 2013 2:16 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

iirc that applies to borderline personality disorder

the agent thing is funny if true

according to someone on Twitter who contacted her

redding, do you have a link to this someone?

there was a line in the new episode of Justified - 'You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.'

all the drama seems v exhausting

is there a personality type where people are addicted to conflict? i'm not trying to be funny here, is there a name for that kind of thing?

― goole, Friday, January 11, 2013 2:16 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

americans!

ilxors

russians!

latinos

Certainly not the French! Wocka wocka

ultimate fighting

humans

hummus

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/2006/1101061225_400.jpg

HEY

Re: agent thing, it was the author of this salon article:

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/alisa_valdes_anti_feminist_romance_not_so_romantic/

http://missalisasplace.com/2012/12/24/alisa-responds-to-the-ny-posts-hatchet-job-on-her-memoir/

I think Valdez would be better off is she stopped publishing these tweets and blog posts before she deletes them.

cached

For instance, the Post piece claims that in my memoir I offer “lessons for women” about how to live their lives. I do not. In fact, I am very careful in the book to state the following, in anticipation of exactly this kind of criticism:

I don’t intend for this book to be anything but my own life story and my own personal observations and change. I’m not writing handbook. It’s more of a diary. (page 104)

The piece also says that I give women advice to allow alpha men to cheat — a total fabrication that has unfortunately been echoed already on the website Jezebel, which did what blogs often do best, running a nasty piece that just copied the newspaper piece whilst adding, you know, curse words.

Which reminds me of

What I mean by this is that while I set out to write a memoir that was a love letter to a man I was deeply in love with, a man who challenged me in myriad ways, a man who changed my life profoundly, a man I respected and honored greatly at the time, what I actually wrote was a handbook for women on how to fall in love with a manipulative, controlling, abusive narcissist.

tbf, the post is a horrible rag and I stand in solidarity with Valdez on the fact that they are a bag of dicks

thanks for the link, redding

i think if a person is of mixed euro-indian descent its "okay" by most standards to refer to them as native american or american indian

If you think this is true, I suggest you try asking random Mexican people if they are Mayan. See how that goes for you.

Anyone tried this yet?

lol it had been 8 minutes, give ppl some time

Even better is to do something like, say, go up to someone from Sonora and say "So you're from Zacatecas, right?"

Go to someone from, I dunno, Chiapas or Oaxaca and say "You all do mariachi music down there, yeah?"

'i'm an aztec, motherfucker'